Williams vs VTS =

TomS · Jun 7, 2004

Been having a debate with a mate today, he used to have a VTS.

He says the VTS is quicker than a williams, however I said top end a williams would dominate. I said itd be quite close but the williams is quicker.

Am I correct? I know the VTS is rapid etc. Dont think the 0-60 figures do it justice.

baddasschris · Jun 7, 2004

i know the vts is quick but williams should edge it, although i know sum1 with a a totally stripped out vts (no rear seats, dashboard, door cards or anything like that) a few mods, cams etc and it is f**king rapid. but standard i dont know, gotta b the williams???

TomS · Jun 7, 2004

Thats what I thought. If theyr both standard its surely the renault.

cliosportcraig · Jun 7, 2004

Standard VTS is more 16v pace, Williams should do it standard for standard, but VTSs do take mods a little better especially breathing mods

Craggy · Jun 7, 2004

a good vts will keep with a williams till 120, after that i dunno it will prob loose out std due to torque, they remain close with mods too altho imo the vts takes to mods better, that is of course unless a williams has ran a 14.5 1/4 with only exhaust and induction kit. obviously there are good and bad examples

baddasschris · Jun 7, 2004

i think the saxo is lighter, the clio is more powerful and an older engine, would be a good race

paddymph · Jun 7, 2004

http://forum.cliosport.net/forum_images/search_sm.gif

use that! all ur Q will be answered.

(Probably by Craggy) lol

Craggy · Jun 7, 2004

i have videos of thenm in all sorts of tune racing eachother, also have a std vts humping a souped up valver hehhe

Tucks · Jun 7, 2004

A mate of mine has a vts with a ss exhaust,hes as quick as me in 1st and 2nd as long as the road is flat.If im following him i can out and pass him towards the end of 3rd,im bog standard,but like previously said depends on the particular car!

Funkyjahooner · Jun 7, 2004

3rd gear in my Vts was a cracker so im suprised a Williams 2 can pass whilst in that gear.Id have to see it to believe it because im a doubting Thomas sometimes but id be quick to congratulate if that was the case.

Only from about 90 mph onwards did i find mt Vts used to struggle a bit against a more powerfull car but up to that point mine used to be pretty rapid.I still wish i had it in many ways,smashing car and even in my 182 now i wouldnt underestimate one because i know what they are like.

Mondial172 · Jun 7, 2004

Very close one! In my experience a VTS (esp a rare 130bhp one) has a slight edge over a standard valver (but only very slightly due to the light weight).

I wouldnt bother to race a VTS in my Cup because for what they are they are bloody quick! It would be too close for my liking. Ill stick to VTRs and Zetec-Ss for now!

Against a Williams though Im not so sure. Any slight incline at all and the williams would be the winner.

Never underestimate a VTS (Good job the group 14 insurance is out of most NEDs reach!)

TomS · Jun 7, 2004

Quote: Originally posted by paddymph on 07 June 2004

http://forum.cliosport.net/forum_images/search_sm.gif

use that! all ur Q will be answered.

(Probably by Craggy) lol

I did do a search but not much came up about the willy and vts.

Cheers for the input, thought it would be a close one!

still, standard form, im backing the willy.

007 · Jun 7, 2004

Have both living in my household and the Williams is quicker. Not massively but its decent enough. In certain areas the peformance is pretty close in others the Willie pulls a decent gap - it really depends where in the revs both are.

Its feels harder to keep the VTS going at full pelt where as the Williams has more power through out the revs to play with - thats the way it was designed - it could have been designed to have all the power at the top of the revs I guess like the VTS/Valver which no doubt would have improved the acceleration but that would have lost the low down power that made it so succesful as a rally car.

I far prefer driving the Williams. More composed handling.

Clart · Jun 7, 2004

"
I wouldnt bother to race a VTS in my Cup because for what they are they are bloody quick! It would be too close for my liking. Ill stick to VTRs and Zetec-Ss for now!"

U must really rate your cup then

Funkyjahooner · Jun 7, 2004

Quote: Originally posted by Mitsi on 07 June 2004

"
I wouldnt bother to race a VTS in my Cup because for what they are they are bloody quick! It would be too close for my liking. Ill stick to VTRs and Zetec-Ss for now!"

U must really rate your cup then

Or perhaps its the Vts he rates

I had one and as far as performance goes i know where hes coming from,they are better than some people on here make out.

2 live · Jun 7, 2004

DRAW

paddymph · Jun 7, 2004

lmao!

u wish

Mondial172 · Jun 7, 2004

Quote: Originally posted by Funkyjahooner on 07 June 2004

Quote: Originally posted by Mitsi on 07 June 2004

"
I wouldnt bother to race a VTS in my Cup because for what they are they are bloody quick! It would be too close for my liking. Ill stick to VTRs and Zetec-Ss for now!"

U must really rate your cup then

Click to expand...

Or perhaps its the Vts he rates

I had one and as far as performance goes i know where hes coming from,they are better than some people on here make out.

Spot on.

Thing is Mitsi there aint many places round here(south London) is explote the Cups extra blow once over 60 - also there aint many VTSs. Unlike up in Yorkshire where me dad lives the roads here kind of suck.

I went from a VTR to my cup and I really rate it miles ahead on the Saxo in all areas. I just like racing stuff I know im gonna kill

TomS · Jun 7, 2004

Yeah agree, they are good cars along with the 106 gti.

prefer a williams tho i think

Chris1.4RT · Jun 7, 2004

Ive had my VTS for nearly a year now. Its a 130bhp model.

It is fecking rapid.

I dont go looking for races as such but all Ive had vs clios are a short 2nd gear pelt vs a 172; nothing in it til about 80 when we braked for a RBt and went seperate ways. And vs a cup, I was in front, I knew he was waiting for me to plant it, I was in 4th doing 70 when the car in front of me pulled over, granted the cup could have been in 5th but there was nothing in it all the way to 120 (yes, thats what happened, dont argue!). Never seen a valver or willy yet though, would be more interesting.

Mondial172 · Jun 7, 2004

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

See what I mean!

2 live · Jun 7, 2004

Quote: Originally posted by paddymph on 07 June 2004

lmao!

u wish

well near enuff lol..............0.1 secs for a more modded car wel let go eh lol

Chris1.4RT · Jun 7, 2004

I was gonna move over as soon as he started closing (as if I werent even racing lol) but he never did, so I just stayed there until I broke down for a red lighted Rbt which he blatantly went through. Chicken (lol), could have been a mint traffic light grand prix LN5* X*F

Ben H · Jun 7, 2004

By test figures (old 1990s Autocar tests), the VTS is identical to Valver performance - and loses out by 4 secs to the ton against the Willy, as does the Valver.

Going on that and knowing the VTS relies on high revs, Id have said that the VTS would in most situations be enough to keep a Willy driver worried, except perhaps from slow speed T-juctions and very tight B-roads where the low-down torque of the Willy would shine through.

As with the VTS, a lot of Willy lumps make freak power as standard.

Funkyjahooner · Jun 7, 2004

Chris am i right in saying though that the 130 bhp models are not any quicker than the 120 bhp models ?

Daft as it sounds wasnt the extra 10 bhp stuck on to accomodate some changes in the engine set up and still provide the performance figures as standard ? They got over that and went back to 120 bhp ? Im sure its something along these lines.

Mine was a standard 120 bhp and i loved driving and owning it.Had some fun times in it

Chris1.4RT · Jun 7, 2004

"Theyre all the same except for some 2000 models:

The 130bhp you refer to is the 2000 plate models W/X (mines an X), they came with upto 130bhp as Citroen tinkered with the exhaust and got more bhp out, but by the time Y reg came, new EU emission laws meant it was restricted taking the power back down to the original 120bhp. There is a part on the engine which indicates which one you have (its these little mounts that dont hold anything). The mk2s, V reg onwards, came with the 15inch Indianapolis 5 spokers"

Above quote taken from my post on the Saxo VTS 16v for sale thread.

I dont know that much about the 120bhp vs 130bhp in terms of how much it relates to on the road but ppl on Saxosportsclub seem to think the 130 is more desirable - perhaps just because it sounds better syaing its got 130. Ive not raced a 120 yet but then again so many saxos are modded itd be hard to tell if it was 120 other than just by looking at it and going off the reg plate.

Getting back to the main point,

That all said, Id say a VTS would be slightly behind a Willy, especially if its a rolling start which most races are.

CUPPY · Jun 7, 2004

how much does a saxo weight and cup respectively

richy · Jun 7, 2004

vts is 935kg

felix16v · Jun 8, 2004

Quote: Originally posted by Adamf on 07 June 2004

Never underestimate a VTS (Good job the group 14 insurance is out of most NEDs reach!)

you assume they bother with insurance at all!

XTR2000 · Jun 8, 2004

VTS is basically a Pug 106 GTI too innit?

I overtook a red 106GTI on the motorway yesterday.... he decided to drop a cog and try to catch me.... I was away!!! he had no chance...

my m8 tried racing a 106GTI the other week in his megane and got lashed... He seems to think my Megane is alot faster and ive done no engine mods

Megane 1.6 16v = 110bhp

jimblive · Jun 8, 2004

my 106gti with a couple of breathing mods will keep pulling well over 90. never come across a williams yet though to see how they compare but i think it would be close so long as i could keep on cam. drop below 4.5k and it would be all over!

TomS · Jun 8, 2004

Yeah obviously with minor mods to anyone of them would probably influence the result, but standard for standard.

Like the VTS i think id back the williams.

Be a good race.. all you vts and wily owners report back when you have competed! lol

h3lter · Jun 8, 2004

clio power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

matt the cat · Jun 8, 2004

lets not get carried away here, a williams would win any day of the week! Have raced both in my 172 - the williams put up more of a struggle, I know before you say - they might/might not have had mods but IMHO the williams is faster - faster than the quoted 0-60 suggests

But hey, I wasted em both, Mwuaahahahaha

mark16v · Jun 8, 2004

im not sure if im missing something here , but there have been loads of posts in the past when ppl with valvers have said they were beating VTSs , isnt the williams better than the valver?

Craggy · Jun 8, 2004

here are some comparisons which count, all on the same strip with the same timing gear and the driver giving it death, not road races which have too many factors for an accurate account of whats fastest. some, not all of you may be shocked at just how well the 1.6 of the vts can hold its own

williams with filter, full system, stripped best i know is 14.6 1/4 94mph

vts full system, stripped, 14.5 94mph, vts with full interior and ice 14.7 93.5mph

172 mk1, stripped, de-cat induction kit 14.6 92 mph

std mk2, stripped, 14.7 92mph

v6 mk 1, std, 14.7 93mph

330 ci 14.8 95mph

std cup 14.8

stripped cup with full system, chip and induction kit, 14.1 97 mph

and finally valvers are in 15s generally and tend to struggle but its not impossible to break over 90 mph, some as good as 91

16vGaz · Jun 8, 2004

my old 106 gti few mods and 0-100 in 14.1 sec what does a V6 do it in ?

Craggy · Jun 8, 2004

the supercharged ones can only just beat that fella, must be one of the freak 200bhp ones he he he

what few mods did you have btw or are we talking nitrous

Dan_mk1 · Jun 8, 2004

Quote: Originally posted by XTR2000 on 08 June 2004
VTS is basically a Pug 106 GTI too innit? I overtook a red 106GTI on the motorway yesterday.... he decided to drop a cog and try to catch me.... I was away!!! he had no chance...my m8 tried racing a 106GTI the other week in his megane and got lashed... He seems to think my Megane is alot faster and ive done no engine mods

Megane 1.6 16v = 110bhp

sounds a bit dubious mate, less bhp in a heavier car!?

jongsr4 · Jun 8, 2004

Quote: Originally posted by XTR2000 on 08 June 2004

VTS is basically a Pug 106 GTI too innit?

I overtook a red 106GTI on the motorway yesterday.... he decided to drop a cog and try to catch me.... I was away!!! he had no chance...

my m8 tried racing a 106GTI the other week in his megane and got lashed... He seems to think my Megane is alot faster and ive done no engine mods

Megane 1.6 16v = 110bhp

wouldnt dignify that with an answer really

Williams vs VTS =

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