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Working in IT



CrippsCorner

ClioSport Club Member
  208 GTi
I studied IT at college, and eventually ended up working in computer engineering for Renault as it goes... well it wasn't for Renault, we were sub-contracted to them, and unfortunately got bought out and most of us lost our jobs. I then applied for 12 jobs over the summer, 11 of which were IT based, and I happened to get the one that wasn't, lol. So I've been out the industry for 13 years now, but have been starting to take more of an IT role at my current place. Thinking about doing a paid for OU course to get my knowledge back up.

Is it worth doing something similar where you can start off small, but get a qualification along side it? I know it doesn't count for everything, as people have mentioned, but surely it means something! There are young guys in the IT department doing the same thing, there's always someone off on day leave/study leave. I'm in the NHS by the way.
 

KitsonRis

ClioSport Club Member
Also you say IT sector is that any job for someone that make IT stuff? As the company I work for we write software as our main money earner (we bid for customer work, make software, hand it over kind of thing) but there has been a bit of a push within the company to be like "I never thought about working in IT but here I am" for people that I work with who don't write code, so like marketing, comms, business operations etc. Most large companies will have other departments that do other things than typical IT work if it is the sector you want to get involved with rather than doing technical work.
 

Advikaz

ClioSport Club Member
stealing this guys thread a little here, but how are you guys finding Ai is changing things?

From my side it seems to be changing everything. I’m doing a bit with co-Pilot integration at the moment and in general I can’t even begin to imagine what this s**t is going to be like in 10 years if it keeps on the vertical path of evolution it is at present !
 

boultonn

ClioSport Club Member
  Macan S
stealing this guys thread a little here, but how are you guys finding Ai is changing things?

From my side it seems to be changing everything. I’m doing a bit with co-Pilot integration at the moment and in general I can’t even begin to imagine what this s**t is going to be like in 10 years if it keeps on the vertical path of evolution it is at present !
HMG are still trying to get their head around it, so while we’re using it a bit to make our lives easier, it’s not being ham-fisted in anywhere it can be.
From a security perspective it poses some very interesting opportunities and challenges, and hopefully won’t make me redundant too quickly.
 

ChrisR

ClioSport Club Member
My current place (for the next 4 days anyway) are a big MS partner in the security space and have been doing a lot with them on security co-Pilot.

It’s certainly going to be interesting to see how we embed it into our service offerings, allow us to do more with the same/less people (reality is it won’t replace people, it’ll just make us to more with them/quicker), and ultimately give us something else to sell, or get the customer to consume, from MS.

Moving back to a product vendor rather than managed services in a week and I know they have some AI related stuff in the product I’m sure I’ll have to learn all about.
 

andybond

ClioSport Club Member
stealing this guys thread a little here, but how are you guys finding Ai is changing things?

From my side it seems to be changing everything. I’m doing a bit with co-Pilot integration at the moment and in general I can’t even begin to imagine what this s**t is going to be like in 10 years if it keeps on the vertical path of evolution it is at present !
AI isnt mature yet. Its nothing more than a fancy search engine without having to type in google.co.uk

It can offer suggestions, or options but its rarely consistent in its approach. It can also be wildly off the mark.

It is however getting substantially better. Its just not ready yet for making decision that are not human overseen.
 

Krarl

ClioSport Club Member
Ai is nothing more than a tool. It won't replace anyone

Just think, as humans we evolve and we make new tools to make out lives easier. If we didn't we'd still be using hammers made from bone
 

.Joe

ClioSport Club Member
Ai is nothing more than a tool. It won't replace anyone

Just think, as humans we evolve and we make new tools to make out lives easier. If we didn't we'd still be using hammers made from bone
I find it a bit similar to the release of powershell, it's going to reduce the amount of monotonous repetitive tasks, writing a script could've taken a number of hours to get going initially with additional tweak time. whereas now can have a template pumped out in 20 minutes and another 20 tweaking it. So the extra time can be better spent elsewhere.
There's a lot of companies out there with great ideas for AI implementation but the delivery of it usually runs a bit short.
At the end of the day convenience will come out on top.
 

Oggy997

ClioSport Club Member
  997.1, Caddy, e208
AI is my hero, I've had to learn tableau and power bi in a couple of weeks, using the Internet as my only resource.

Id never have been able to write have the things I had to in Dax without it.
 

KitsonRis

ClioSport Club Member
stealing this guys thread a little here, but how are you guys finding Ai is changing things?

From my side it seems to be changing everything. I’m doing a bit with co-Pilot integration at the moment and in general I can’t even begin to imagine what this s**t is going to be like in 10 years if it keeps on the vertical path of evolution it is at present !
The amount of times people say “we need AI” and really they don’t is a lot. It’s just a buzz word and people think they have to have it to be seen as cool and trendy (which for tech firms they think they have to be seen to do these crappy things….innovation sprints, tech festivals, talks, creating podcasts…no just get on with some actual work and deliver something and make money). Same with the cloud when that was a new thing. For some purposes it is good and what is required but others it is not. Saying that it’s a good way to rinse a company of a lot of money.
I’m not worried about losing my job to AI. If Stack Overflow was to disappear then I would panic.
 

KitsonRis

ClioSport Club Member
So the one good thing about something like ChatGPT is you can ask it things like “make me a Java spring boot app with X, Y and Z” or along those lines and it will give you a good framework to start from. It won’t be perfect but it’s a starting point. Same when you see an error, good as a diagnostic tool but won’t do it all for you.

I’ve seen machine learning systems when all it is a find and replace against a dictionary of words and regex…not really machine learning but gets all the praise as it’s given the company an AI capability 🙄
 

Hixle

Hi Kiss Luke E****
ClioSport Club Member
  981 Cayman GTS
I won’t say who I work for, but we’re doing some really cool stuff with Gen AI and the market response has been overwhelmingly positive.

Most customers aren’t mature enough to see the true benefits yet though. Gen AI is essentially the consolidation of data, so really most people need to make sure data hygiene is on point first. Put s**t in, get s**t out…
 

The Psychedelic Socialist

ClioSport Club Member
Ai is nothing more than a tool. It won't replace anyone

Just think, as humans we evolve and we make new tools to make out lives easier. If we didn't we'd still be using hammers made from bone
AI will absolutely replace a huge number of people.

LLMs like ChatGPT are in many ways just a glorified mash-up of Google, Autocomplete and Stack Overflow, but even if it never improves from its current level I'd say it's absolutely capable of putting people out of work.

I'm a long way from being a skilled / professional user, but even playing around with it has saved me hours of work pulling together information, writing basic code, composing long-form replies in the politics thread.

From what I've read, for those with fairly specific needs, especially in IT, it's transformational. Sure It's a 'just a tool', but tools have always allowed us to do more work with fewer people. How many people does it take to farm an a tonne of grain now compared to the 19th century?

And because I'm an eternal cynic, if your department is now twice as efficient thanks to the use of AI tools, do you think your employers will just start paying you all twice as much, or will they just sack half the team?

If we're lucky it'll create other jobs, but that's not guaranteed. I'd still hope that the overall impact is positive but it does feel like we're on the cusp of another big change like the industrial revolution, and any big change like this can f**k over a huge number of people, even while it's benefiting society as a whole.
 

Krarl

ClioSport Club Member
AI will absolutely replace a huge number of people.

LLMs like ChatGPT are in many ways just a glorified mash-up of Google, Autocomplete and Stack Overflow, but even if it never improves from its current level I'd say it's absolutely capable of putting people out of work.

I'm a long way from being a skilled / professional user, but even playing around with it has saved me hours of work pulling together information, writing basic code, composing long-form replies in the politics thread.

From what I've read, for those with fairly specific needs, especially in IT, it's transformational. Sure It's a 'just a tool', but tools have always allowed us to do more work with fewer people. How many people does it take to farm an a tonne of grain now compared to the 19th century?

And because I'm an eternal cynic, if your department is now twice as efficient thanks to the use of AI tools, do you think your employers will just start paying you all twice as much, or will they just sack half the team?

If we're lucky it'll create other jobs, but that's not guaranteed. I'd still hope that the overall impact is positive but it does feel like we're on the cusp of another big change like the industrial revolution, and any big change like this can f**k over a huge number of people, even while it's benefiting society as a whole.
I ain't reading all of that

Can't you ask ChatGPT to shorten all of your bullshit please
 

Louis

I Park Like a C**t
ClioSport Club Member
I got chat gpt to shorten it

Screenshot_20231212_111946_Chrome.jpg
 

S24NRC

ClioSport Club Member
  RS197
Infrastructure Engineer checking in.

I've worked my way up from 1st line in a small start up company over the past 5 years and can't really add more than what's been already said from a technical perspective. I'd definitely recommend jumping in on the Helpdesk as you're more likely to get familiar with all areas of the business very quickly.

I've seen plenty of people come and go and some of my main advice would be:
  1. wear deodorant
  2. think about what you're going to say before you say it.
The amount of people I've encountered in this industry with next to no personal hygiene routine or that get hung up on every 3rd word they say is f***ing scary.
 

Advikaz

ClioSport Club Member
IT, get some skills in Office365 / Azure stuff and start from there. Can quickly get a decent IT job doing that and not much experience needed.

They will always be needed now with most emails going cloud and wont ever come back in house.


My day job is a solutions architect, and you’re absolutely spot on.

A substantial amount of what I do is cloud based
 
If OP wants to head into development roles then having your own public GIT repo and building up a little portfolio of code and applications you've done either through online learning or some of the various coding challenges that get set around the world can do wonders for your CV and make you stand out.

22 years in IT and counting, whenever hiring into entry level positions having that plus showing any working experience (non IT needed) should get you into interview as much as passing exams. Once in interview show more passion for the subject and company than anyone else and hopefully you'll make that first step and away you go. IT support and testing/QA role are great entry points as well as full careers too.
 

SharkyUK

ClioSport Club Member
That's one of the biggest concerns I have to be honest, I've seen so many different courses and qualifications and it's hard to know which of them are useful or meaningful to employers. I'm currently doing a free introductory course to Python just to see what it's all about, and see if programming is something I enjoy.
Thankfully I've always been a quick learner and enjoy being hands on with stuff, so that's not a huge concern.

I'm a bit late to the thread and not sure if I can add much value, but how are you getting on with the Python course? Have you tried some of the online web dev technology courses, too? Something like React/Typescript/HTML/CSS or related tech stacks? Having a look at those might give you some flavour as to what it's about and whether or not it's for you. Depending on how much time you have and how brave you are feeling, maybe grab a copy of MS Visual Studio Community (free) and start looking at some simple C# stuff. In for a penny...

If you have any questions about software development/engineering then feel free to fire them over. I started coding when I was around 7 years old (it's all I wanted to do - especially making video games) and I've been developing software for 35+ years now. I worked as a full-time employee in a few different roles (mainly games, 3D/special effects, defence/cyber) before starting my own software dev business 7/8 years ago. It had got to the point where I could not climb any higher up the ladder in a technical role without moving towards management and I didn't want that as I love the hands-on development aspect above everything else. You'll often hear about the technical ceiling that many devs hit - whereby employers are reluctant to pay you more as they feel the extra salary should be justified by moving you more into a management role (which I think is a very old-fashioned way of working/thinking). Why not fairly compensate and encourage skilled engineers if they are bringing value and adding worth to your business/products? I've had the pleasure of working on small/homebrew stuff to multi-billion pound contracts - either as a software hack or in a formalised software engineering capacity - and experienced a wide range of working environments, methodologies, etc. I am fortunate to say that I still enjoy the challenge of coding each day now as I did on day one. I've also been fortunate enough (maybe not the correct words!) to experience a plethora of development languages over the years - from assembly to C++ to Lisp to some really obscure shizzle - and often called upon as a mentor to guide and advise those coming up through the ranks.

TLDR; I've got a bit of knowledge and experience of the software dev world if you've got questions.

stealing this guys thread a little here, but how are you guys finding Ai is changing things?

From my side it seems to be changing everything. I’m doing a bit with co-Pilot integration at the moment and in general I can’t even begin to imagine what this s**t is going to be like in 10 years if it keeps on the vertical path of evolution it is at present !

I'm finding it to be a bit of a double-edged sword. I love working with it, the tech and the algorithms. The results can be surprising and unexpected, and a lot of the time they can be utter garbage (given insufficient training data, training periods, unbalanced/biased learning networks, etc.) It's pretty cool, and its use could be far-reaching (far more than we have seen currently). Of course, it has been around for a while but it's really starting to go mainstream now and the latest generation of learning, training and steering algorithms really are something special. Honestly speaking, a bit unnerving in many regards, too.

On the flip side, I'm seeing a massive increase in the use of ChatGPT for source code I'm asked to review or look over, a lot of it from the younger developers on the projects I'm working. I don't have an issue with the use of the tech... my concern is that inexperienced (or lazy) devs seem to take it as gospel and use it without really understanding what it's doing. That's a dangerous precedent to set, especially on commercial and sensitive projects where money, lives, infrastructure, etc. can be adversely affected with potentially catastrophic effects. And then there is the whole question of security around its use and what users of AI are submitting to these systems in terms of the queries and questions they are posing. My current client has a series of meetings involving myself and a few others in order to monitor how AI is being used and the potential threats (for want of a better word) it poses. On the flip side, we also discuss the benefits that AI could bring to so many areas... but the priority is always risk mitigation, threat elimination, etc - you have to err on the side of caution and not use it blindly. It's an incredibly powerful tool.
 

Oggy997

ClioSport Club Member
  997.1, Caddy, e208
While I can write sql, vba and others, I often use gpt to do the hard work for me. Then I review and adjust to suit.

It can save me days
 
Nothing to add on the advice above but wanted to throw in some excellent resources if the OP does want to look at Microsoft Azure.


As for ChatGPT & co-pilot, I think it is a good thing IF it is used as described by Oggy997 with the warnings from SharkyUK. I have seen a situation where someone was advocating using it to generate code as "it doesn't matter if you don't understand it" but soon got slapped down for this stance when code started to fail peer review and explainability checks. A time saver to get a baseline - good, a lazy replacement for a complete piece of work - no
 

S24NRC

ClioSport Club Member
  RS197
Only feed AI something you would be happy to tell your number 1 competitor is how we've been operating.
 

Mr Squashie

CSF Harvester
ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182
I'm a bit late to the thread and not sure if I can add much value, but how are you getting on with the Python course? Have you tried some of the online web dev technology courses, too? Something like React/Typescript/HTML/CSS or related tech stacks? Having a look at those might give you some flavour as to what it's about and whether or not it's for you. Depending on how much time you have and how brave you are feeling, maybe grab a copy of MS Visual Studio Community (free) and start looking at some simple C# stuff. In for a penny...
Honestly I've only spent an hour or two looking at the Python course so far, and as yet haven't seen what the code even looks like as I'm still learning about algorithms etc. But it's on the top of my to do list when the madness of Christmas is over.

I remember being really into HTML during the MySpace craze, designing my page with all sorts of auto playing songs and videos and animated wallpapers, that would make my laptop nearly freeze every time it had to load it 🤣

Turns out this isn't the first time I've wanted to get into IT as I discovered a CompTIA certificate when going through old emails, should probably include that in my CV before applying for any more jobs 😖
 


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