Clio sport cup
What are the differences in car performance with different size trumpets?
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Difference between itb trumpet sizes
- Thread starter Andycollins
- Start date
Clio sport cup
So for hill climb sprints I'd want 120 mm?
As Chip says
The length of the trumpets sold with the Clio kits (usually 90mm but some sell 60mm!) are dictated by the clearance under the bonnet rather than what's optimal for the engine.
Ideally you'd want a total inlet length (trumpet, body and manifold) close to the length of the standard inlet - and considering that's an up and over design on the clio it's quite long.
120mm is the longest you can really fit without hacking your bonnet to pieces or (as I've concidered a few times), angling the bodies down and putting the trumpets right up into the front grill.
The length of the trumpets sold with the Clio kits (usually 90mm but some sell 60mm!) are dictated by the clearance under the bonnet rather than what's optimal for the engine.
Ideally you'd want a total inlet length (trumpet, body and manifold) close to the length of the standard inlet - and considering that's an up and over design on the clio it's quite long.
120mm is the longest you can really fit without hacking your bonnet to pieces or (as I've concidered a few times), angling the bodies down and putting the trumpets right up into the front grill.
A shed
I'm looking to angle them down and ram the filter up against the grill.
The angle of the ktec bodies should actually help get more length when the trumpets are angled down
The angle of the ktec bodies should actually help get more length when the trumpets are angled down
finding it quite funny that everyone is quoting optimal trumpet lengths, but ignoring the fact all these brands of ITBs are different so the total length is different.
a jenvey SF kit is sold with 90s becuase they work well with standard cams, thats what the kit was designed to be used with.
a KTR DTH kit is sold with 60 (giving almost the same overall length as the SF kit with 90s) for the same reason.
ATs are WAY shorter overall
a jenvey SF kit is sold with 90s becuase they work well with standard cams, thats what the kit was designed to be used with.
a KTR DTH kit is sold with 60 (giving almost the same overall length as the SF kit with 90s) for the same reason.
ATs are WAY shorter overall
Really?
So the overall length was found to "work well with standard cams"? It had nothing to do with hitting the bonnet if you went longer?
Weird as hell that cos my 120's work just as well with standard cams
So the overall length was found to "work well with standard cams"? It had nothing to do with hitting the bonnet if you went longer?
Weird as hell that cos my 120's work just as well with standard cams
Really?
So the overall length was found to "work well with standard cams"? It had nothing to do with hitting the bonnet if you went longer?
Weird as hell that cos my 120's work just as well with standard cams
Just as well? Or better?
Danny is right though that its total induction length that matters, the air doesnt care if its in a trumpet or a body or a manifold, its all just part of the overall intake length in terms of how it works, so anyone who is reading this thread who has the mickey mouse ktec kit shouldnt assume the same trumpet lengths are useful to them when we are talking about the Jenvey kit.
They work better.
I know total induction length matters - which is why I said the length of the manifold, bodies and trumpets ideally would be close to the original length.
The smaller trumpets I was referring to was the AT's which are stupidly short
The mickey mouse Ktec kit is still Jenveys
I just thought it was a bizarre thing to say that the 90's supplied with the kit were chosen as they work well with the cams, when we all know longer work better. Clearly the length was dictated by physical space in the bay rather than what works best with the cams
I know total induction length matters - which is why I said the length of the manifold, bodies and trumpets ideally would be close to the original length.
The smaller trumpets I was referring to was the AT's which are stupidly short
The mickey mouse Ktec kit is still Jenveys
I just thought it was a bizarre thing to say that the 90's supplied with the kit were chosen as they work well with the cams, when we all know longer work better. Clearly the length was dictated by physical space in the bay rather than what works best with the cams
The mickey mouse Ktec kit is still Jenveys
Indeed the bodies are, but they arent on the normal manifold so the length is different.
Its the rest of the kit (especially the original "filter of death" that makes me refer to it as mickey mouse rather than the actual bodies)
Yes I think Danny either missed the point or didnt word what he meant very well there.
Maybe he meant that the 90s were chosen as they are a good compromise between ease of fitment and performance.
Yeah they are the longest you can fit in the space so compromise the performance the least out of the options.
LOL filter of death - I thought you got that with both the SF and the DTH kit?
LOL filter of death - I thought you got that with both the SF and the DTH kit?
I dont know where the older ktec ones came from, but I dont believe they were jenvey as they were really terrible.
someone said they had changed now though, so hopefully do actually filter slightly now.
Yeah mine came with some s**t like that - it had actually fallen apart and chunks of it were missing (presumably eaten by the old engine LOL)
I'm not biased for AT at all and I'd quite like to swap to Jenveys but people can't say AT runner length is tiny as they don't just make 1 kit they will make them to whatever length you like. The kit on my car is very long and works pretty well. It's all down to how much trouble you want to go to when fitting the bodies. The AT will cater to whatever your requirements.
SharkyUK
ClioSport Club Member
This thing Phil:
Are you really telling me that came from Jenvey? I just cant see it myself!
*shudder* That filter was SHOCKING! So was the state of my engine after ingesting half of it. Mind you, the 'newer' variant was just as bad. Most of that ended up eaten by the engine, too... it was literally see-through! I can't recall where the filters were sourced from but I'm nigh on certain it wasn't Jenvey.
Nah mine was a 2nd hand bodged together kit so no idea what they used to sell with them direct from Jenvey. Maybe the Jenvey sausage filter which is pretty horrid too
True true, it's just weird how they sell them very short as standard. They do the same thing with the 106/saxo kit too
Just because its easy to fit the shorter ones into the car which makes it cheaper to fit, this more appealing to people who just want to say they have ITB's on their car. They will sell people what they want just like most decent business models would do
same as when TDF sold the kits they spec'd the standard kit very short as they could fit them in a few hours and not have to change any rad's, A/C, slam panel etc gives better margins. AT just supply what the customer asks for I could ask for a set 500mm long and I bet they would do them no problem (not that they would fit or be worthwhile!)*shudder* That filter was SHOCKING! So was the state of my engine after ingesting half of it. Mind you, the 'newer' variant was just as bad. Most of that ended up eaten by the engine, too... it was literally see-through! I can't recall where the filters were sourced from but I'm nigh on certain it wasn't Jenvey.
ITG
The Ktec and the Jenvey standard kit uses 90mm trumpets. You could ring K-Tec and see if they can supply it with 120's instead but I suspect they buy the kit from Jenvey so wouldn't want to split it.
Direct from Jenvey they'd probably spec it however you want but it won't be cheap brand new.
Direct from Jenvey they'd probably spec it however you want but it won't be cheap brand new.
The bodies are made by Jenvey but are DTH so body and manifold combined.
Yeah it is a Jenvey kit but it's a direct-to-head kit rather than the individual SF bodies with a manifold.
I'm not really sure if it makes much difference to performance but if you want the metal fuel rail and etc... you could buy direct from jenvey
http://www.jenvey.co.uk/home/thrott...lt-clio-172-sf-taper-throttle-body-kit-ckrt03
What you want for the filter is a carbon back plate/box from reverie and then the pipercross c603D filter
I'm not really sure if it makes much difference to performance but if you want the metal fuel rail and etc... you could buy direct from jenvey
http://www.jenvey.co.uk/home/thrott...lt-clio-172-sf-taper-throttle-body-kit-ckrt03
What you want for the filter is a carbon back plate/box from reverie and then the pipercross c603D filter
120mm trumpets fit with ktec bodies but you have to cut the inner bonnet skin away so it is not ideal.
If its *THAT* close, it will then effect how they breathe by covering up a big chunk of the filter.
I refer you back to my "mickey mouse ktec kit" comment earlier, lol.
Just by the proper ones from Jenvey Tomo 172 !
Yup - my "proper" ones have 120mm trumpets on and had a good 10-15mm of space between them and the bonnet. I cut the bonnet skin out anyway as the more space the better IMO
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
You could use the angled spacers that Jenvey sell on the ktec kit tbh. Just bolt them inbetween the body and the filter back plate (assuming it has one? Never paid much attention to it tbh)
Yes good idea mate, you could pay extra to buy a kit that is wrongly configured, and then spend even more money trying to bodge your way around correcting it.
OR, just buy the proper kit in the first place?
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Agreed, but it's a fix for those that have already bought the ktec kit.
True enough.
Must confess thoguh my preferred fix would be sell it on and buy the right kit, they come up secondhand relatively often anyway so it doesnt need to cost a lot to do so.
There might be a set of jenveys with 120mm trumpets, carbon backbox and pipercross filter up for sale in the next few months. I'm still craving boost lol
Just need to work out if it's worth the money
Just need to work out if it's worth the money
There might be a set of jenveys with 120mm trumpets, carbon backbox and pipercross filter up for sale in the next few months. I'm still craving boost lol
Just need to work out if it's worth the money
Good way to go if you want to get rid of the terrible lag on the ITBs
Errrrrrr
Lag = time period between opening the throttle and the torque reaching 100lbft per litre
