Turbocharger or Supercharger??

[Ben_Stevo172]

I was going to book my car in for a low pressure turbo conversion doing at k-tec this week, I went down to RS Tuning this morning to see Steve off of here with his Trophy turbo. Steves car made about 208bhp with 180lb ft of torque, which doesnt sound alot but I got taken for a blast in it and believe me it pulls like a train! Sounds awesome aswell, lovely wastegate chatter!!! I was very impressed I must say.

Rs Tuning told me they could reach about 250bhp with the supercharger for the same price as k-techs turbo conversion. The supercharger is rated to 400bhp aswell so there is always the oppertunity to take it to 400bhp with internal mods. All I need to do is wait about 3 weeks for him to get a bracket made up at angleworks and he can do mine in about a week when he has all the parts!

What option would you go for?? I think this might be a daft question!! Im thinking supercharger! lol

I wanted to start a poll but didnt know how????

 

[ben_p]

Supercharger

Just for uber coolness and you dont have to mess about with the manifold!

 

[Brett]

Supercharger.

Same reasons as above realy.

 

[Christopher]

Supercharger!

Without question.

 

[Goodj]

supercharger!

as above, but also conside the option of one of those huge through-the-bonnet blowers.....yeah, the ones with big red flaps in them

 

[D4N13L]

Supercharger

Im waiting for GDI's

 

[Goodj]

photoshop anyone?

 

[Yellow Dave]

Turbo for show, supercharger for go!!! Only joking

I'd personally want a supercharger as I hate waiting for the power to kick in, by which time you've already lost ground. The instant power of a supercharger would be awesome. But then I don't know how laggy the low boost K-Tec conversion would be

It's a bit like a standard 5 turbo against a big powered monster. In standard form it picks up almost instantly and flies. Fit a bigger turbo and more boost and........

Wait for it.....

Wait for it.....

Full power and get ready to change gear

Instant power FTW

 

[Ben_Stevo172]

There was no lag at all on steves car, pulled straight away!! I think im going to go for the supercharger, 250bhp would be awesome, this is the exact figure I was looking for from my car and mine will the 1st ph2 172 they have done so it will feel quite special!! lol. My brother tells me you can fit a blow off valve to a supercharger, what are the benefits though, Is it as loud as they are on a turbo? I dont want it to be chavy!!

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

blow off valve wont work well on a charger. They are best left alone, plus you get compressor surge anyway which sounds a lot nicer and less 'chav'. Also as you say Ben, low boost turbo will have no notable lag if done right and K-Tec's kit is very very good.

 

[jamesp24]

Both.

 

[Ben_Stevo172]

I want to find some videos or footage of supercharged 172/182's so I can see what they sound/go like. I am struggling with the suspense now, ive got 3 more weeks of this!!! arrrggghhh

 

[powey]

have they given an exact price?

 

[Andyman]

Rs Tuning told me they could reach about 250bhp with the supercharger for the same price as k-techs turbo conversion.

2.5 k all done ? , are you sure ?


Whats the situation with RS Tuning / AWT's supercharger kit? Last thing i read Paul was building the other engine up.

Is there a package out?

 

[mbarnes]

SC on throttle bodies

 

[Andyman]

SC on throttle bodies

No point

Potential for 400+ bhp with the charger set up

 

[mbarnes]

2.5k fitted and mapped? that sounds too cheap to me lol

 

[mbarnes]

No point

Potential for 400+ bhp with the charger set up

true true, but wouldnt control over the air intake on each port be better than a single throttle body?

i know a mate had good results using both on his 106.

 

[Johnc172]

That's a lot cheaper than i thought it would be! Is there any confirmation of that price?

 

[RSTuning]

Seen as the charger is about 1700 now....

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

you cant use bodies with a charger, forced induction requires an inlet plenum. I suppose you could make one for ITB's, then remove the butterfly or barrels, but there's no point unless of course money is no object. I also have serious doubts to a drive in drive out kit for £2500 as that would have to be on standard ECU. No thanks! lol

 

[RSTuning]

Nothing wrong with the stock ecu if it's mapped right. Our car was making +-300hp and drove perfect, all on the stock ECU. Also the new engine will be mapped on the stock ECU.

Stock ECU is the BEST option where possible.

 

[RSTuning]

P.s. retail on the kit will be about 3500 depending on fabrication costs etc.

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

stock ECU is a matter of opinion really. For a performance build if you can afford not to use it then a stand alone is a better proposition. Horses for courses, but personally speaking, I'd junk it first chance I get in favour of a higher resolution ECU

 

[Cro]

The standard ECU is alot higher functioning than most of the aftermarket options

 

[maynard]

i think you know the way to go....SUPERCHARGER!

 

[Alex_X93]

sc.

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

The standard ECU is alot higher functioning than most of the aftermarket options

in a sense it is, but try adding some high lift and duration cams or running individual throttles using a map sensor and it will soon show it's limitations. Personal choice, I'd use one for mild cams and exhaust and filter mods, not for forced induction or throttles though.

Back on topic I'd probably go down the charged route to be a little different and the linear way the power is delivered, but low boost turbo kits are great. Little to no lag that you would notice and very responsive.

 

[Icarus]

in a sense it is, but try adding some high lift and duration cams or running individual throttles using a map sensor and it will soon show it's limitations. Personal choice, I'd use one for mild cams and exhaust and filter mods, not for forced induction or throttles though.

Sorry but you couldn't be more wrong. What you are refering to is related to the standard calibration, the hardware running that calibration is extremely good and has some very advanced functionality. Have a look how many aftermarket ECU's support a torque based calibration or are capable of running sequential fuel injection with only a crank position sensor for position reference! Calibrating the Sirius to run NA or Boosted engines properly with very good accuracy is entirely possible if you have the kit and knowledge.

Also you'd rarely run MAP as primary load on a naturaly aspirated port throttle setup.

You really need to do a bit more research on what the Sirius family of control systems is, what its run aside from the Clio and what its based around as simply branding it as "limited" makes you look a bit of a silly chap!

Cheers
M

 

[Lagerlout]

Supercharger!

Saw the SC Ph1 172 at Omex/GDI today. Epic.

 

[philmots]

Supercharger! Thinking about it, i'd love a 'charged Trophy!

 

[Savi]

Superchargers are so much more cooler!! and the sound!!!!

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

Sorry but you couldn't be more wrong. What you are refering to is related to the standard calibration, the hardware running that calibration is extremely good and has some very advanced functionality. Have a look how many aftermarket ECU's support a torque based calibration or are capable of running sequential fuel injection with only a crank position sensor for position reference! Calibrating the Sirius to run NA or Boosted engines properly with very good accuracy is entirely possible if you have the kit and knowledge.

Also you'd rarely run MAP as primary load on a naturaly aspirated port throttle setup.

You really need to do a bit more research on what the Sirius family of control systems is, what its run aside from the Clio and what its based around as simply branding it as "limited" makes you look a bit of a silly chap!

Cheers
M

Fair point Icarus (even if mute), sequential aftermarket ECU's are not cheap I realise, however it might also be worth you realising that your average car enthusiast sadly doesn't have access to anything other than the standard cal and wont be building their cars on a race team budget. If it was that easy and cheap to get the standard ECU to do everything then everyone would do it and there would be a nicely packaged and priced solution in place. The reality however is that there isn't, so using an aftermarket ECU is "easier".

I'll do some more research into the Sirius. You research the market, what people are willing to pay and how much disposable income the average Clio owner is likely to have lol. Smugness asside I concede that you do make a good point, but I suppose what I should have said was that the standard ECU's features availble to the public are limited, so aftermarket is cheaper and easier

 

[DrR]

New gearbox's on order then?

 

[Dan R]

New gearbox's on order then?

It will be fine aslong as you look after it
Im considering selling my bodies and having a high compression supercharger conversion
If i go ahead ill let u know how long the box lasts!

 

[Icarus]

Fair point Icarus (even if mute), sequential aftermarket ECU's are not cheap I realise, however it might also be worth you realising that your average car enthusiast sadly doesn't have access to anything other than the standard cal and wont be building their cars on a race team budget. If it was that easy and cheap to get the standard ECU to do everything then everyone would do it and there would be a nicely packaged and priced solution in place. The reality however is that there isn't, so using an aftermarket ECU is "easier".

I'll do some more research into the Sirius. You research the market, what people are willing to pay and how much disposable income the average Clio owner is likely to have lol. Smugness asside I concede that you do make a good point, but I suppose what I should have said was that the standard ECU's features availble to the public are limited, so aftermarket is cheaper and easier

Sequential fuel injection is available on even the s**test cheapest ECU's these days. My point was the Sirius can estimate where in 720 degree rotation the engine is with sufficent accuracy to run sequential injection with only a crank position reference. Very, very few ECU's can do that. We can on the 12 and Tag/MES can primarily as a failure mode on the 'control' ECU that's about it as far as I am aware.

Paul at RST will be happy to cal any Sirius on a Clio. As he pointed out earlier he's had a supercharged F4R making 300bhp odd on the Sirius and has already experimented with running Alpha-N. I've driven the supercharged car and it drove exactly like a standard production car - something which is massively difficult to achieve on an aftermarket ECU.

Aftermarket ECU's are never the cheapest and easiest solution I'm afraid. To get an ECU on a Clio with less functionality than standard and no drive by wire throttle will cost you over a grand, vs £350 for calibrating the standard one to meet your needs whilst maintaining all functionality on the car.

The ideal solution for those not wishing to use the standard ECU is a PnP ECU for the Clio which has full Renault CAN etc. on it and a very well developed calibration. Thats a lot of work to develop and implement..... but I do know someones thinking about it! Bottom line though an aftermarket ECU will never have a cal as developed as an OEM ECU and in most cases OEM ECU's on kit like the Clio are way, way more advanced than anything in the aftermarket that's sub £2000.

Cheers
M

 

[dmn1989]

supercharger due to wheel spining with the turbo, too small a car for a turbo

super chargers flow better

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

Fair enough, in an ideal world I think everyone would prefer to keep the standard wiring loom and ECU, but none of this has been available and not one person has had any success running a stock ECU with throttles on a road car (that I know of anyway). Anyhow, way off topic, sorry people lol

 

[Brett]

supercharger due to wheel spining with the turbo, too small a car for a turbo

super chargers flow better

There are much smaller cars with turbo's such as the R5GTT.

The problem is that turbo's get all of their torque and power suddenly which breaks the traction on the wheels. A smooth power curve is what you want.

 

[Dan R]

It will be fine aslong as you look after it
Im considering selling my bodies and having a high compression supercharger conversion
If i go ahead ill let u know how long the box lasts!

Apologies lol!! I meant high boost not compression!!
My lack of paying attention to what im actually writing!!