F.A.O. The F4R Mk1 crew!

[Paddy_g46]

Right, I got my engine out today and started to swap bits over etc, I have hit a few problems/misunderstandings. Please help as I want to crack on with this in the morning!

Here we go!

I swapped over what I could of the aux set-up but I am not sure I used the right bits etc.

I basically stripped down the Mk1 and then the 172 and tried to bolt on what I could, I wasnt really sure what alternator bracket to use? :?

Here are pics of what I have done:

As you can see I have used the mk1 brakcet that normally bolts to the inlet manifold in 2 places to hold the top of the alternator. I this correct?

Or should I be using this bracket somewhere?

I cant see how this 172 item will fit as the faces are not straight? :?

This piece came off the mk1 from behind the power steering pump but I cannot get it to line up with any holes on the block and it seems like It does not serve a purpose? Is this correct?

Also when changing over the set-up do I change crank pulley from the 172 item to the mk1 item? I tried to see if the original belt was long enough to fit on and it is not? I can only put this down to the larger crank pulley? Or do I need a different belt?

Finally, for those had have fitted the sort clutch conversion. How exactly do these pieces fit on? I have all the bits needed, 1 bolt 1 nut 1 cap, 1 brass bush, 1 brakcet and 1 fork|

I cant work out how the bracket fits on?! I know you need to use the brass bush but it seems like I would need 2 of them? Either that or some very large washers?

I know this may be confusing but I have tried my best to explain it!


Thanks!

 

[Sheilas’ Wheels]

I used a renault 7 alternator bracket. (As recomended by jord/whiteley) and it bolted straight on. Had a mare finding a correct length belt but got there in the end. In your pics, the bracket fits above the alternator and you then swing it upwards to suit. Literally took minutes to sort the bracket though. Oh, and make sure you order a 5 rib belt not a six otherwise it will rub.

Can't comment on the clutch conversion as I haven't done it.

 

[Paddy_g46]

I used a renault 7 alternator bracket. (As recomended by jord/whiteley) and it bolted straight on. Had a mare finding a correct length belt but got there in the end. In your pics, the bracket fits above the alternator and you then swing it upwards to suit. Literally took minutes to sort the bracket though. Oh, and make sure you order a 5 rib belt not a six otherwise it will rub.

Can't comment on the clutch conversion as I haven't done it.

You didnt run PAS did you?

 

[Sheilas’ Wheels]

Nope.

I are got big arms.

 

[Paddy_g46]

HMM your case is slightly different to mine then Sod having manual steering for a daily drive!

 

[f0xy]

Clutch extender bracket is upside down in your picture, the flat 'T' piece goes on the bottom. The brass bit is to centralise the bolt and goes on the nut side, on the opposite side of the box to where the bracket is sat. The bracket sits on the 'outside' of the hole on the box... Its hard to explain without a picture, but I have not got one to hand lol

With regards to the Aux setup im not sure, never looked into the PAS stuff etc. Wilky or Matteh might know!

 

[wilky19]

HMM your case is slightly different to mine then Sod having manual steering for a daily drive!

you get use to it but having pas is soooooo much nicer

 

[f0xy]

Can see it in the picture, brass washer sits into the bracket and is on the nut side, just centers the bolt

 

[Paddy_g46]

Clutch extender bracket is upside down in your picture, the flat 'T' piece goes on the bottom. The brass bit is to centralise the bolt and goes on the nut side, on the opposite side of the box to where the bracket is sat. The bracket sits on the 'outside' of the hole on the box... Its hard to explain without a picture, but I have not got one to hand lol

With regards to the Aux setup im not sure, never looked into the PAS stuff etc. Wilky or Matteh might know!

Makes perfect sense! So i was just looking at it upside down! lol

 

[Paddy_g46]

Oh and is the Mk1 and Mk2 battery tray and mount identical? Any benefit to either?


Is it possible to swap the crank pulley to the Mk1 item because then surely the original belt would be correct length?

 

[f0xy]

Slightly different as the two gearbox mounts (to the gearbox casing) are different, but it still fits...

Its easy to get the right length belt... use a piece of string round the correct path then measure the length....go to your local motor factors and get them to order one in

 

[Paddy_g46]

Slightly different as the two gearbox mounts (to the gearbox casing) are different, but it still fits...

Its easy to get the right length belt... use a piece of string round the correct path then measure the length....go to your local motor factors and get them to order one in

String, why didn't I think of that?! Right im on that tomorrow, lets hope everything goes smoothly!

 

[Laine_16v]

caution i used the string method and measured it perfectly, id go for a belt at least 1cm over what you actually measaure, as mine came too small for wahtever reason.

http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m28b0s2591p0

Belts can be had from there.

 

[Andrew Cooke]

caution i used the string method and measured it perfectly, id go for a belt at least 1cm over what you actually measaure, as mine came too small for wahtever reason.

http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m28b0s2591p0

Belts can be had from there.

Yeah, I cut the belt I had, measured it to compare that with the advertised length, then cut it to fit pulleys, measured the new bit and ordered one from Camskill.

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

The bracket from Renault is nealry £45 and the adjuster bracket is £30 the adjuster bracket part number is 7700718613

 

[Paddy_g46]

Ok, I have been busy today and got the engine and box mounted in the car and started to attach the loom. There are a few connectors which I cannot work out where they go or some that do not match.

Firstly this 1:

Acoording to a diagram I have seen this is for reverse lights? How does this connect up? I cannot see anywhere for it to go?

Secondly:

The alternator plug, I have used the Mk1 alternator (I thought this would be fine?) and the plug and socket are different shape. Also the Mk1 connector has 2 cables going to it, whereas the 172 loom has 1 white cable but it looks as if a green cable was in the plug but was cut out?!

Can anyone shed light on this? How can I get over it?

Thirdly:

What is this pipe and what needs to be connected to it?

Where is the VVC socket located? I couldn't find where to plug the loom into?


Thanks

 

[wilky19]

replied over on 16valver

 

[Paddy_g46]

replied over on 16valver

Replied!

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

the reverse light plug is on the box near the drive shaft.

The one single wire from the alt cut the plug and fit the 16v end, youll need too supply the altinator with 12v one side and the remote wire that you have on pix of the other, you know if there the wrong way roung as the battery wont charge


if you dont have the plug use two insulated spades

 

[Paddy_g46]

the reverse light plug is on the box near the drive shaft.

The one single wire from the alt cut the plug and fit the 16v end, youll need too supply the altinator with 12v one side and the remote wire that you have on pix of the other, you know if there the wrong way roung as the battery wont charge


if you dont have the plug use two insulated spades

Sorry mate, you have completely lost me on that 1! So take the single white wire from the 172 plug and chop it and connect onto the Mk1 plug? (the Mk1 plug has 2 wires) Then what do I do?

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

the other wire you need a 12v supply so that the altinator can start to charge as crazy as it sounds, it still needs a ignision 12v to start it working away..

Basicly one wire is 12v
the other is to dash light

The 172's altinator charges it self the mk1 ( 16v ) doesnt

 

[James23]

~Piccy of hose~


That is a breather and there is meant to be a pipe connected to that which connects it to the carbon canister, which on a mk2 ph1 is just above the offside wheel arch.

 

[Gray]

Just block that hose off... it was for the Carbon cannister, which is not required

 

[Paddy_g46]

the other wire you need a 12v supply so that the altinator can start to charge as crazy as it sounds, it still needs a ignision 12v to start it working away..

Basicly one wire is 12v
the other is to dash light

The 172's altinator charges it self the mk1 ( 16v ) doesnt

Any idea where the best place to take an ignition live from is?

 

[Paddy_g46]

Just block that hose off... it was for the Carbon cannister, which is not required

Cheers!

 

[Andyrg@ ClioTurbo]

just look in the fuse box for a ig live

 

[Paddy_g46]

In this picture what is the thing above the crash switch and between the ecu? It is either a positive or negative connection but I dont know what 1?

Also does anyone know if I can use the Mk1 lambda sensor and join it to the loom in place of the 172 lambda?

 

[wilky19]

all ignition lives are yellow wires, splice into one of them near the fuse box.

you need to use a 172 lambda.

 

[Andrew Cooke]

In this picture what is the thing above the crash switch and between the ecu? It is either a positive or negative connection but I dont know what 1?

that should be battery +ve, goes to the thick starter wire and the thick alternator wire

 

[Paddy_g46]

all ignition lives are yellow wires, splice into one of them near the fuse box.

you need to use a 172 lambda.

Cheers dude. Will the car run at all without it? Just wandered so I can fire it up later if im all done.

that should be battery +ve, goes to the thick starter wire and the thick alternator wire

So connect onto the battery terminal?

I got the ECU this morning, thanks!

 

[Andrew Cooke]

So connect onto the battery terminal?

I got the ECU this morning, thanks!

yep, should be a fat red cable.

Oh good, should be running by this afternoon...

 

[Paddy_g46]

yep, should be a fat red cable.

Oh good, should be running by this afternoon...

LOL!

 

[Paddy_g46]

Will the car run without a lambda sensor connected?

 

[Andrew Cooke]

it should start Ok, i wouldn't really want to run it like that. You can start it without water too, just enough to know it runs, don't try getting it hot

 

[Andrew Cooke]

btw, I still don't know what the difference between the Sirius 32 ecu you have and the Sirius 32N ecu I have is. It fired up fine on my single lambda loom, and didn't throw up any lambda related errors. The code version was A300_3502 (I think) and mine was A300_3504. There is a possibility that you shouldn't have the pipe from the regulator to the plenum, or maybe I shouldn't have???

Somebody must know all this stuff, but I don't know who.

 

[Paddy_g46]

Ok, iv got it all wired up and tried to start it but the fuel pump is not priming/pumping and the car will not start. It cranks and turns over fine but no start!

Any ideas?

If the immobiliser wasnt turning off would it stilll crank?

 

[Paddy_g46]

Ok I just put 12v straight onto the fuel pump connection and the pump fired up and pressured the system, but when I turned it over it still wouldn't start.....

Argh!

 

[Paddy_g46]

I think I am getting no spark...

 

[Paddy_g46]

Ok I have just noticed 1 of my pins has snapped off. It is pin B58. Is this meant to be like this? If not I have found the problem....

 

[Paddy_g46]

Here is a pic of the only relays and fuses that came on the 172 loom, is this all the 1's I need or am I missing anything?