F.A.O. The F4R Mk1 crew!

[Sheilas’ Wheels]

I've got loads missing in my box. I can take a pic tomorrow if you like?

As for it not firing, sounds like an imobiliser issue (providing you've checked all the plugs/leads/coilpack etc.)

The imobiliser will allow it to crank but it just won't fire.

 

[Paddy_g46]

A picture would be great! I will message you tomorrow to remind you! (I am desperate).

As for the immobiliser being at fault, I thought that aswell, but earlier on with aload of filling around I got those relays to click on and off but now they wont do it anymore

This loom is truly baffling me! I am trying to work out if there is anyway of "bodging" them and getting them to work lol

 

[Sheilas’ Wheels]

I cheated there. I bought a ready made loom off Beanimoo so literally fitted the bits, plugged it in and drove off! lol!

 

[f0xy]

Not had chance to read the lot but the fuses/relays look the correct types/amounts..

If the immo is active the fuel pump WILL still prime, but you will get no injectors or spark when cranking - thus immobilising the engine. So if your fuel pump is not running I would be checking that first, along with swapping the small black relays around to see if it makes any difference - one of them could be dud.

As for the coilpack, it will always receive an ignition 12v live - as when the engine runs the ECU earths the pairs on the coilpack to produce the spark. The immobiliser disables this function and the injectors as said above... If you are getting no fuel pump priming I would be swapping the relays round or trying different ones. The connectors on them could be dirty too, seen it cause problems before. Check the ECU earth (should be attached to the back of the gearbox) and the gearbox-to-chassis earth - bad earths can cause alot of problems too. Id concentrate on the fuel pump first, ive had immobiliser problems loads of times (before we started using emulators) and it always primed and cranked, but would never spark or fire injectors. Maybe the phase of your loom is different and the fuel pump is on a different pin...trace it back and see which pin it goes to.

You only need a handful of wires to get it running - Fuel pump live from the engine loom to the interior, starter solenoid to the key barrel, an ignition live and a permanent live. I had mine running like that before I worked out the rest of the loom wire by wire...

 

[Andrew Cooke]

As for the coilpack, it will always receive an ignition 12v live - as when the engine runs the ECU earths the pairs on the coilpack to produce the spark.

I'm pretty sure that the coil is powered via the same relay that powers the fuel pump.

Patrick's initial problem was a lack of switched live to the ECU, that got the relays working, not sure what's going on now.

 

[f0xy]

sorry yeah I meant once his fuel pump is priming, it will receive 12v for a few seconds. Then when cranking a constant 12v

 

[Sheilas’ Wheels]

I've got a pic of my fuse box now pat. I'll have to wait until I'm home to link it though as my crappy work computer won't let me copy and paste.

 

[Paddy_g46]

Ok, so If I have 12v switch live at the relay blocks but they are not switching what does this mean? Btw when I checked the relays last night the terminals were corroded as if water had got in. I cleaned them up and they worked for a few mins then stopped working. Is it worth buying new relays?

Apart from that, what causes the relay to switch?

F0xy, on that pic I have posted on my relays do you know what is what on it?

 

[Paddy_g46]

I've got a pic of my fuse box now pat. I'll have to wait until I'm home to link it though as my crappy work computer won't let me copy and paste.

I was literally just emailing you! OK, well does it look the same as mine?

 

[Sheilas’ Wheels]

Yep. Looks identical from my very, very limited knowledge!

 

[Andrew Cooke]

can you measure the voltage on pin 2 of the relay with the relay plugged in? This is the signal line from the ECU, with the ignition on they should all be 12V. If you link this to gnd the relay should click, and power whatever the relay.

Or, with the ECU unplugged and ignition on
strap pin 39 to gnd and injector relay should click, and you get 12V at the injectors
strap pin 68 to gnd and fuel pump relay should click, and pump run
strap pin 8 to gnd and the low speed fan relay should click and the fan run slow
strap pin 38 to gnd and the high speed fan relay should click and the fan run fast.

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Patrick - your inbox is full again

so:
the 5 pin relay numbers are correct, and if you pull the relay out they are printed on the bottom.
I just replied in your thread, try what I suggest with the ECU unplugged. Connect to the connector first then touch to ground to avoid putting arc spots on the connector.

If you're getting nowhere by 12 I'll load some stuff in my car and drive down.

 

[Paddy_g46]

can you measure the voltage on pin 2 of the relay with the relay plugged in? This is the signal line from the ECU, with the ignition on they should all be 12V. If you link this to gnd the relay should click, and power whatever the relay.

Or, with the ECU unplugged and ignition on
strap pin 39 to gnd and injector relay should click, and you get 12V at the injectors
strap pin 68 to gnd and fuel pump relay should click, and pump run
strap pin 8 to gnd and the low speed fan relay should click and the fan run slow
strap pin 38 to gnd and the high speed fan relay should click and the fan run fast.

Ok give me 30 Mins and I will do all off the above and see what happens.

Patrick - your inbox is full again

so:
the 5 pin relay numbers are correct, and if you pull the relay out they are printed on the bottom.
I just replied in your thread, try what I suggest with the ECU unplugged. Connect to the connector first then touch to ground to avoid putting arc spots on the connector.

If you're getting nowhere by 12 I'll load some stuff in my car and drive down.

Ok, let me get back to you on that, thanks!

 

[Paddy_g46]

can you measure the voltage on pin 2 of the relay with the relay plugged in? This is the signal line from the ECU, with the ignition on they should all be 12V. If you link this to gnd the relay should click, and power whatever the relay.

Or, with the ECU unplugged and ignition on
strap pin 39 to gnd and injector relay should click, and you get 12V at the injectors
strap pin 68 to gnd and fuel pump relay should click, and pump run
strap pin 8 to gnd and the low speed fan relay should click and the fan run slow
strap pin 38 to gnd and the high speed fan relay should click and the fan run fast.

Ok, 39 and 68 clicked and the fuel pump kicked in, 8 and 38 didnt....

When they are clicking, what terminal should they be giving power to?



Edit: I just shorted out the fan relay plug and it fired the fan up, I think my relays are screwed.....Should I just buy 4 new relays?

Also what does the big yellow relay do?!

 

[Paddy_g46]

Ok I just shorted out the big yellow relay and that is fast speed on fan!

 

[Andrew Cooke]

since you can switch the 2 main relays from the ECU connector and the pump runs when you do it those relays and the wiring to them is OK.

If you still have the power and grounds at the ECU that I pm'd last night it sounds like ECU.

Do you have an OBD connector fitted, or access to the wires?

Best let me know where to find you..

 

[Paddy_g46]

Ok as it stand I have the fuel pump relay shorted and the injectors shorted (they have 12 volts on 1 side of the injector plugs) but the car will still not start?

What about voltage at the coilpack?

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Ok as it stand I have the fuel pump relay shorted and the injectors shorted (they have 12 volts on 1 side of the injector plugs) but the car will still not start?

What about voltage at the coilpack?

it won't start because if the ECU isn't switching the outputs it isn't doing anything, and therefore won't fire the coils or injectors.

Does it prime the pump on switch on? I'm still suspicious of the ECU power supplies.

 

[Paddy_g46]

it won't start because if the ECU isn't switching the outputs it isn't doing anything, and therefore won't fire the coils or injectors.

Does it prime the pump on switch on? I'm still suspicious of the ECU power supplies.

Number 30 is permanent 12v and 29 is switched with ignition like it should be (this is what tells the ECU the car is switched on?) ...?

Edit: PM'd

 

[Paddy_g46]

IT RUNS!!!!!!