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172 idles at 2000rpm on cold mornings, accelarator won't respond!

S

Seb25

Car  BMW 330CI M SPORT
Been having this problem for about a month. On a cold morning, im talking around 0/1/2 degrees as soon as i start the engine, my 172 idles at 2000rpm and won't respond to my foot on the pedal. Very strange. My dad has suggested it may possibly be potentionmeter and cable?

When this happens, it also turns the toxic fumes warning light on.

Can anyone confirm a fix for this?

Thanks guys
 
And once its warmed up, does it still do this? Diagnostics will tell you everything!
 
MicKPM said:
And once its warmed up, does it still do this? Diagnostics will tell you everything!
Click to expand...

No mate, I leave it idling at 2000rpm, give it a few turn on and offs and it comes right again. Have plugged reader in and it says P0120 but when I have mentioned this to an 'electrical specialist' they don't seem to think this relates?...

jinjur said:
Thats what mine did once the throttle body got wet, could that have happened?

J
Click to expand...

I'm not 100% sure mate, is this something that could be easily rectified? How did you fix yours?
 
Seb23 said:
No mate, I leave it idling at 2000rpm, give it a few turn on and offs and it comes right again. Have plugged reader in and it says P0120 but when I have mentioned this to an 'electrical specialist' they don't seem to think this relates?...



I'm not 100% sure mate, is this something that could be easily rectified? How did you fix yours?
Click to expand...

Throttle Position Sensor not related to strange reving? Could just be the engine warming up. Sort of a cholk effect.
 
Seb23 said:
No mate, I leave it idling at 2000rpm, give it a few turn on and offs and it comes right again. Have plugged reader in and it says P0120 but when I have mentioned this to an 'electrical specialist' they don't seem to think this relates?...



I'm not 100% sure mate, is this something that could be easily rectified? How did you fix yours?
Click to expand...

I did nothing chap, it kinda fixed itself...sorry that doesnt help......though P0120 rings a bill......tps or something

J
 
Might be worth replacing that sensor? Not sure how to do it though.

I've heard some horror stories about water getting into strange areas on the Clio. Even just from heavy rain.
 
Yep, the fuse box in the engine bay and the main engine loom connection is always prone to rusty connections and puddles :S French ****
 
Sounds very similar to what happens to mine sometimes, but usually happens while driving, which is bad.
Does yours go into Limp Home Mode at all?
 
oliver9523 said:
Sounds very similar to what happens to mine sometimes, but usually happens while driving, which is bad.
Does yours go into Limp Home Mode at all?
Click to expand...


No it only does it on a cold morning, which is making me think its temperature related surely. Strange. Renaults suggestion was to reset the ecu....yeah brilliant suggestion, absolutely useless.

Has anyone here actually had the exact problem and managed to pinpoint it, sounds like it's more of a common problem than people think.

Cheers
 
Seb, its going to be a drive-by-wire TPS being the Clio II Ph2 so having a P0120 as an ACTIVE code is the most likely cause of your problem however a look at the track outputs via the vehicles live data screen will tell you if it is this and if somehow the cold mornings are effecting the sensor tracks. Without wanting to teach your granny to suck eggs these pedals work in a similar way that Scaletrix car controllers work - except the potentiometers have two triggers aka "tracks" which are labelled 'A' and 'B'.... From these two tracks an average pedal position reading is worked out that translates to a throttle pedal angle which is in turn also translated in to a throttle plate angle by a motor at the throttle body end. If one of the two pedal potentiometer tracks is giving an inconsistant reading a fault code will be logged and the pedal will not work so in short the P0120 code is very relevent to your issue!

New pedal *should* sort this out for you.
 
MicKPM said:
Seb, its going to be a drive-by-wire TPS being the Clio II Ph2 so having a P0120 as an ACTIVE code is the most likely cause of your problem however a look at the track outputs via the vehicles live data screen will tell you if it is this and if somehow the cold mornings are effecting the sensor tracks. Without wanting to teach your granny to suck eggs these pedals work in a similar way that Scaletrix car controllers work - except the potentiometers have two triggers aka "tracks" which are labelled 'A' and 'B'.... From these two tracks an average pedal position reading is worked out that translates to a throttle pedal angle which is in turn also translated in to a throttle plate angle by a motor at the throttle body end. If one of the two pedal potentiometer tracks is giving an inconsistant reading a fault code will be logged and the pedal will not work so in short the P0120 code is very relevent to your issue!

New pedal *should* sort this out for you.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot mate! Really appreciate responses like that. My initial thinking was to work through a process of elimination, get a heater in the car and dry it completely out by facing the heater towards the drivers foot well. Then replace potentionmeter, if this does not solve it then look at the throttle sensor.

You would advise just going straight for the pedal then?
 
You could simply unplug and remove the accel pedal assembly from the car and then dry it out to see if that cures the issue but I'm not a gambling man so wouldn't advise just changing out the pedal just yet. I always like to proove a part is buggered before replacing it but that's just how I run my business... I'm not sure as i've never had to 'Clip' a Clio II RS yet but I believe you can't just plug in a new pedal and expect it to work. Of course, I could be wrong as we don't need to on the Peugeot 308 that use a similar setup however I'm certain I've read a tech note saying you need to 'Adapt' the new potentiometer ranges on a 'Clip' as we do with EGR Valves.

Personally, If it were me the first thing I'd do is get the car plugged in on a decent, local, diagnostic rig being run by someone that knows exactly what they're doing to see if the "ACTIVE" code becomes a "MEMORY" after the car's warmed and also to see what resistance values the two tracks are outputting.

Just a quick sub-question for you... what kit did you use to get the P0120? Some cheap code readers have been known to give phantom codes especially on the Clio II's

Mick
 
Last edited:
I did a straight swap on my pedal and throttle body (ph2 172) with no issues, but neither fixed the problem I had with high revs / limp home mode.
 
Hi Mick

I understand what you're saying. I'm going to look into doing that tonight. I totally agree with you about knowing for sure that a part is definitely faulty. I've read that the potentionmeter is just a quick off and on job, I didn't realise there may be a possibility you have to adapt it, how is this done if so?

With regards to your question, I first used our code reader at home which is more of a universal reader and the local garage used their own reader, but i'm not sure what type it is.

Thanks
 
oliver9523 said:
I did a straight swap on my pedal and throttle body (ph2 172) with no issues, but neither fixed the problem I had with high revs / limp home mode.
Click to expand...


Strange thing with mine is, once it has had its few mins to warm up it runs like a dream. I've never had a case of it going into Limp Mode whilst driving. It also never has the high idle problem when its warm or stopping in traffic as people have mentioned. It didn't have a problem this morning because it was around 6 degrees, it only does it when it's around 0/1 or 2 degrees.

Did you eventually fix yours?
 
Seb23 said:
Did you eventually fix yours?
Click to expand...

errr......maybe.... it was pretty intermittent so I'm just waiting to see if it does it again after about 2-3 weeks as it was doing the high rev thing and/or limp home mode every couple of days. Would do it randomly at lights, under gentle/hard accel, trying to get out of busy junctions was a shitter :(

The matey at the garage separated the throttle body wiring from the main loom, as it ran next to the main battery cable it's prone to interference. He redirected it to try give it a cleaner EMI environment.

It's coming up to 2 weeks and it has been ok so far..... /touches every bit of wood in sight
 
Seb *IF* it needs adaption it can only be done on decent diagnostic kit. The problem may lay with either the wiring or one of the components; Pedal Potentiometer or the TB so be sure to get it checked out properly before replacing parts that are potentially fairly pricey!

Mick
 
Cheers Mick.


A new lad down at my footy practice on Friday nights is a bit of an expert so im going to ask him if he can take a look. He has a garage with a lot of decent equipment apparently.
 
MicKPM said:
Seb *IF* it needs adaption it can only be done on decent diagnostic kit. The problem may lay with either the wiring or one of the components; Pedal Potentiometer or the TB so be sure to get it checked out properly before replacing parts that are potentially fairly pricey!

Mick
Click to expand...

Mick

I dried the car and pedal out completely. Spoke with the lad and he seems to think that because the car isnt going into limp home mode and is just on a cold morning that it isn't the TB or potentionmeter that needs swapping. Local garage who did some other bits for me just say their next steps are to start replacing bits...this is getting really frustrating, not sure what to do at all.
 
Throttle body replaced. Numerous tests. Replaced pedal. ECU tested.

Still no luck!

Problem remains, on a cold morning, no response from the throttle and idling at 2000rpm until it's up to temp.

Absolute nightmare, can't believe nobody else is having this problem. Any help much appreciated!
 
I was thinking about this only yesterday Seb as I'd not heard anymore from you.

There's got to be a simple explanation for this issue, there just has to be - Wiring or a component. Did you ever find out what the "Experimental" fix was that they applied to the ECM?

Mick
 
Hi Mick

I didn't want to bother you before I'd heard back from the ECU place but they just aren't returning my call as it stands so not sure what to do regarding them (must have phoned about 5 times now).

Shame I cant test another ECU for a week...this would 100% pinpoint it!

My Dad said the same thing, that it has to be something simple now as every major possibility has been tried. I've seen people mention splitting TB and other wires apart for a better signal. Do you think this could be a possibility?
 
Interference or 'noise' is a possible but the thing that makes me believe that's not the issue it the fact that once the car warms up (Or the external temps get higher) then its no longer an issue so deffo temp. related.

The only thing I can suggest at the minute is I'll either come and have another look and pull the wiring/loom to bits (I need to reprogram the SRS trigger lines anyhow for you) or you can come say hello next time you're in Nottingham and i'll do it then.

Mick
 
Not with Sebs car no as he sold it so we never managed to get any further. It has always been one of those cars though which stays with me as the problem was a rare one... Actually, i've never seen it in another one. I suspect it was ECU driver related though
 
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