1.2 'Cylinder' Filter to Cone Filter Question

[lamborgini8]

Just had a poke under the engine after looking up on K&N cone filters and I am now sort of stuck as to how this is going to work... I know how to change panel filters but this one is kind of confusing... It's sort of a cylinder filter and I can't see a way to attach a cone filter to it as the standard filter appears to be attatched straight onto something else without any obvious hoses.

Here's the pictures of the engine, its a 1.2 (1152cc) manual petrol. The car is a 2001 X reg Mk2 Phase 1.

I can see there is a hose/tube to the right hand side of the air filter (see pic) but it looks as though there are wires going into the air filter closer to the actual filter itself... I can't tell if they do go to it or not.

Any ideas? I do know im not going to get any extra power from replacing the standard filter but I am after the sound more than anything.

 

[jakm15]

i have the same, i just got a k and n filter which is a direct replacement and goes in the same air box.

 

[lamborgini8]

i have the same, i just got a k and n filter which is a direct replacement and goes in the same air box.

We actually have the same Grande model haha!

Got a part name or anything? Does the one you have sound any different to the standard one?

 

[kevin.s]

if the filter goes into the standard airbox then there will be no change in sound. to fit a cone filter you need to remover the airbox completly and put it on the hose that you removed the box from.

 

[Rob]

I have the same engine as you mate, if not its an even earlier model of it, mine looks shoddy and my engine cover is different somehow?

I've tried two different filter setups, running it off the standard "U" shaped pipe, which seemed very restricted and got very hot, then I have made my ownn setup, i'll take a picture tomorrow or tonight if you really want one.

You'll have to excuse the awful looking filter on the end, was just something I had lying around from a mates motor, lol.

 

[lamborgini8]

if the filter goes into the standard airbox then there will be no change in sound. to fit a cone filter you need to remover the airbox completly and put it on the hose that you removed the box from.

Im assuming that would be the entire assembly you can see in the second picture, right up to the plastic hose on the right?

I have the same engine as you mate, if not its an even earlier model of it, mine looks shoddy and my engine cover is different somehow?

I've tried two different filter setups, running it off the standard "U" shaped pipe, which seemed very restricted and got very hot, then I have made my ownn setup, i'll take a picture tomorrow or tonight if you really want one.

You'll have to excuse the awful looking filter on the end, was just something I had lying around from a mates motor, lol.

Im guessing that's the same U shaped pipe as mentioned above? If you don't mind getting a picture that would be great? I spoke to my cousin who used to do mechanics and he seams to think I should replace the entire pipe which could be more effort than its worth.

 

[Rob]

I replaced my "u" shaped pipe with a 90 degree silicone bend mate, car sounds and seems much better especially at high revs, i'll go out and take a pic in a minute (you'll have to excuse the gaffa tape holding the air intake perfectly in place, have gotta make a mount)


Ph1 1.2 air intake is a very poor flow setup, so many bends, not that it really matters that much in such a pap engine.

 

[lamborgini8]

I replaced my "u" shaped pipe with a 90 degree silicone bend mate, car sounds and seems much better especially at high revs, i'll go out and take a pic in a minute (you'll have to excuse the gaffa tape holding the air intake perfectly in place, have gotta make a mount)


Ph1 1.2 air intake is a very poor flow setup, so many bends, not that it really matters that much in such a pap engine.

Most of the power seams to be at the higher revs in mine in any case, more power will be nice but like I said, the main thing I am after is the sound...

*Waits for pictures*

 

[Rob]

Ok.. pics... but first things to ignore

1. The silver max power, look at me, bling bling cone. (I was a student, free when brand new is epic when a student (and i've only had a job for 3 weeks))
2. The gaffa tape holding the cold air intake to the filter (student excuse again)

I have also moved the cold air feed so that it feeds from next to the drivers headlight as opposed to the original position. (I can take a pic of this if necessary)

Setup ignoring tape

Silicone bend (yes it needs a clean BAD under here)

Can sort of see where the intake comes from now and where it goes (tape WOO)

I dont know if i could do sound clips, but if you really wanted I could give it a go.

Despite what people tell you, this is LOUD

 

[lamborgini8]

Ok.. pics... but first things to ignore

1. The silver max power, look at me, bling bling cone. (I was a student, free when brand new is epic when a student (and i've only had a job for 3 weeks))
2. The gaffa tape holding the cold air intake to the filter (student excuse again)

I have also moved the cold air feed so that it feeds from next to the drivers headlight as opposed to the original position. (I can take a pic of this if necessary)

Setup ignoring tape



Silicone bend (yes it needs a clean BAD under here)


Can sort of see where the intake comes from now and where it goes (tape WOO)




I dont know if i could do sound clips, but if you really wanted I could give it a go.

Despite what people tell you, this is LOUD

Your engine actually looks upside down compared to mine :S

Don't suppose you have a picture of what it looked like before you installed the filter do you?

Looking at yours all I need to do is completely remove the, rather nice looking, gold highlighted bit and replace the red tube with a 90 degree bend in the picture below?

Was your cold air feed actually attached to your filter at standard? I can see a similar tube on mine but I can't tell where it goes.

 

[Rob]

My filter setup was 100% exactly the same as yours is in that picture, i guess its my angle that doesnt show the size of the gap behind the engine where the airbox used to be, (sorry)

My feed ran from the same daft whole in that piece of metal down the bottom below the passenger headlight and my air box was behind the engine.

I have removed EVERYTHING you have highlighted in red and gold

The gold piece is just an air box, the "bumpy" pip is one fed into the airbox and then "smooth" "U" is the feed from the engine to the airbox.

Make sense?

 

[lamborgini8]

My filter setup was 100% exactly the same as yours is in that picture, i guess its my angle that doesnt show the size of the gap behind the engine where the airbox used to be, (sorry)

My feed ran from the same daft whole in that piece of metal down the bottom below the passenger headlight and my air box was behind the engine.

I have removed EVERYTHING you have highlighted in red and gold

The gold piece is just an air box, the "bumpy" pip is one fed into the airbox and then "smooth" "U" is the feed from the engine to the airbox.

Make sense?

Oh right, that makes more sense.

It's slightly confused me regarding the filter itself though... I know you said you modified the intake but I was always under the impression that cone air filters where set up as the image below, without any intake attached to the filter.

Is the intake completely necessary? Can it be removed or fitted properly to the air filter?

 

[jakm15]

We actually have the same Grande model haha!

Got a part name or anything? Does the one you have sound any different to the standard one?

i just got the filter off ebay, it does make it sound slightly better and slightly better pull. just take the air box off and go for a little drive it sounds mad, only for a short drive though.

 

[Rob]

The particular filter i have shown only takes air in through the front, so having a CAF (even a taped one) there does show and improvement.

Even with a filter like you have pictured, having cold air feed near is always a positive thing as you want the air around the filter to be fresh cold air, as opposed to static warm air which has been heated by the engine.

If i were you i'd just cable tie your air intake where ever you put the new filter? Its easy enough and would work just fine. Silicone bends can be bought from ebay on the cheap btw.

 

[lamborgini8]

The particular filter i have shown only takes air in through the front, so having a CAF (even a taped one) there does show and improvement.

Even with a filter like you have pictured, having cold air feed near is always a positive thing as you want the air around the filter to be fresh cold air, as opposed to static warm air which has been heated by the engine.

If i were you i'd just cable tie your air intake where ever you put the new filter? Its easy enough and would work just fine. Silicone bends can be bought from ebay on the cheap btw.

Right ok, that is what I originally thought.

The cold air intake doesn't necessarily have to be attached to an air filter, as long as its nearby and close enough to feed the filter fresh cool air? If that's the case then I will either position it in its current position or if its easier I will position it the same way you have.

I will take another look under the bonnet tomorrow and work out where the cold air intake comes from and goes to.

Im guessing its just a matter of a few clips and screws to remove the standard air box?

 

[Rob]

Just the band that goes around the airbox i think mate? Then it should come out with a bit of a jiggle?

 

[lamborgini8]

Just the band that goes around the airbox i think mate? Then it should come out with a bit of a jiggle?

Ok, awesome. I will take another look under the bonnet tomorrow but it seams like I can get this done on the cheap with about 30 - 45 mins work .

Need to find out what size it is but something like this will replace the red highlighted tube above. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/13mm-1-2-SILI...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item439b49121f and then attach the filter onto the end of that and relocate the cold air intake nearby the new air filter... Done!

 

[Plummer]

Same engine as you, my enclosed filter setup.

[YOUTUBE]C9nNxxOjryg[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Rob]

Ok, awesome. I will take another look under the bonnet tomorrow but it seams like I can get this done on the cheap with about 30 - 45 mins work .

Need to find out what size it is but something like this will replace the red highlighted tube above. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/13mm-1-2-SILI...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item439b49121f and then attach the filter onto the end of that and relocate the cold air intake nearby the new air filter... Done!

Mate that pipe is tiny! LOL

I'll log into my ebay and find the exact one you need.... (be warned i did have to make one end shorter so it fitted, easy enough with something very sharp)

I also bought a small breather to go over the oil catch tube.

 

[MarcoB]

Nice and tappety 16v ftw!
The IK sounds good though. Maybe try making the pipe shorter and not running it past the exhaust manifold.

 

[Rob]

This is basically what you want mate, they can be got very cheaply on ebay but I cant be bothered to sit and find the cheapest one for you

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RED-63mm-2-5-...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3ef6a51420

2.5" is what i used, but incase you want to check, measure the inside of the "u" pipe on the side that conncets to the engine as opposed to the side that attatches to the airbox.

If its anywhere over 2.0" then get the bigger on as you are going to put a jubilee clip on it anyway.

 

[lamborgini8]

Ok cool, thats pretty much everything I need then.

Going by the video posted above I could just leave the old air box attached seeing as its not being used. Im guessing there's a sort of 'lip' on the inside of the engine part where the tube attaches for the jubilee clip to hold it down onto then? I will probally figure that out as I go along though, worst case scenario is it totally packs up haha.

Seams simple to do though.

 

[Plummer]

Ok cool, thats pretty much everything I need then.

Going by the video posted above I could just leave the old air box attached seeing as its not being used. Im guessing there's a sort of 'lip' on the inside of the engine part where the tube attaches for the jubilee clip to hold it down onto then? I will probally figure that out as I go along though, worst case scenario is it totally packs up haha.

Seams simple to do though.

Everything you stated is true.

It is very easy once you just do it.

 

[lamborgini8]

Everything you stated is true.

It is very easy once you just do it.

Il get some parts on order

 

[lamborgini8]

Quick question, these two parts would be perfect right?

90 Degree Hose
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270425986080&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Universal Filter
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360208258902&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Both are 63mm so though should all fit perfectly right? It's just the end that actually attaches to the engine that needs to be measured then.

 

[Rob]

Both totally fine mate.

 

[jakm15]

my bay is the exact same, just poped the k&n in the orignal airbox.

 

[lamborgini8]

I saw that pic earlier, you just have a standard shaped filter in there like the one you took out though right?

Im changing it completely to a cone filter like the one on ebay linked above.

 

[sir--fox]

Does that produce a nice noise jakm? Lot less hassle just replacing the air filter in the box than messing about with tubes and stuff.

 

[jakm15]

I saw that pic earlier, you just have a standard shaped filter in there like the one you took out though right?

Im changing it completely to a cone filter like the one on ebay linked above.

ye the new cone shape will give a louder sound but personally i would stay clear of the cheap ones as the filtration will not be as good. its the standard shape but allows better air flow and the hole in the middle of the filter is larger.

Does that produce a nice noise jakm? Lot less hassle just replacing the air filter in the box than messing about with tubes and stuff.

it makes a slight difference in sound and a slight difference in respone, it sounds more throaty with the k&n in.

 

[lamborgini8]

ye the new cone shape will give a louder sound but personally i would stay clear of the cheap ones as the filtration will not be as good. its the standard shape but allows better air flow and the hole in the middle of the filter is larger.



it makes a slight difference in sound and a slight difference in respone, it sounds more throaty with the k&n in.

Is your filter noticeable throatier? Do you have to listen carefully to notice it or can you just put your foot down and hear it clearly like you would with a cone filter?

 

[Plummer]

Replacement filters make no sound difference.

 

[Rob]

Is your filter noticeable throatier? Do you have to listen carefully to notice it or can you just put your foot down and hear it clearly like you would with a cone filter?

It sounds like you want some fun noise, if so, just go for the setup I have suggested, for a 1.2 it sounds ace tbh. I'd take you out for a ride, but your a fair distance away!

 

[lamborgini8]

It sounds like you want some fun noise, if so, just go for the setup I have suggested, for a 1.2 it sounds ace tbh. I'd take you out for a ride, but your a fair distance away!

Bummer, record a video? Haha.

It is mostly the sound I am after, I don't want a massive chavtastic exhaust pipe, I want a nice deep sound from the engine.

Im just adding up my cheapest options at the moment.

 

[Rob]

For what you what this is BY FAR the cheapest option, to me it has some major pluses over an exhaust anyways...

1. The old man lives 60 miles away, putting up with the "motorway drone" of an exhaust drives you nuts (I know I've done it) where as the open filter only really makes a lot of noise when you are putting your foot down, not just travelling at constant speed.
2. The missus hates loud cars and I can happily drive anywhere/everywhere with her in the car and she doesnt even know its there unless I boot it.

Oh and if your anywhere around Luton way (not sure how close that is to you) next weekend I'll be there and you could see what you think of it?

I'll try get a mate to record a video for me, but no garuntees.

 

[lamborgini8]

For what you what this is BY FAR the cheapest option, to me it has some major pluses over an exhaust anyways...

1. The old man lives 60 miles away, putting up with the "motorway drone" of an exhaust drives you nuts (I know I've done it) where as the open filter only really makes a lot of noise when you are putting your foot down, not just travelling at constant speed.
2. The missus hates loud cars and I can happily drive anywhere/everywhere with her in the car and she doesnt even know its there unless I boot it.

Oh and if your anywhere around Luton way (not sure how close that is to you) next weekend I'll be there and you could see what you think of it?

I'll try get a mate to record a video for me, but no garuntees.

Almost the same reasons as me then, imagine a Ferrari... you can, sort of, drive it carefully and not make too much noise until you put your foot down and it barks. That's the similar kind of thing im after, not a constant sound, just a nice deep sound when I fancy going a little mad.

Luton isn't too far from me, its just a pain in the ass to get to from the Hoddesdon area.

 

[Rob]

Well I'll be there next Saturday mate, could meet you somewhere inbetween where I am and you are if you want a passenger ride?

Plus its always good to meet another member and check out a different motor.

I hope you won't be disappointed with the noise!

EDIT: I've just looked where you are and I need to come past you pretty much on the m25. I'm coming from the dartford side, So i can stop along the way if you wanna hear it, if not just go for it and buy it!

 

[lamborgini8]

Well I'll be there next Saturday mate, could meet you somewhere inbetween where I am and you are if you want a passenger ride?

Plus its always good to meet another member and check out a different motor.

I hope you won't be disappointed with the noise!

EDIT: I've just looked where you are and I need to come past you pretty much on the m25. I'm coming from the dartford side, So i can stop along the way if you wanna hear it, if not just go for it and buy it!

Cool, I will get back to you on that .

 

[Mike_182]

my bay is the exact same, just poped the k&n in the orignal airbox.

Is there not supposed to be an engine in there? :S