I love my DCi 65 had it for 2 years now and its still going strong 
ClioSport.net
Register a free account today to become a member!
Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. Read more here.
Cheaper servicing on a diesel no coil packs, plugs etc No throttle bodies to go wrong either.
Absolutely Edde.
Theres so much misinformation put about about diesels.
As its said " A little knowledge is dangerous".
Theres so much misinformation put about about diesels.
As its said " A little knowledge is dangerous".
What doesn't help also is there so many old diesels out there chugging round convincing people there still back in the dark ages plus VAG arn't doing us any favours with there (IMO) low power band diesel although BMW arn't much better in some cases.
850 T5. mmmm Turbo!
i must admit the only races i've had with diesels were agains the A4 1.8 td's and modeo 1.9 cdti
both slower than my car.
i followed dangermouse_se in his diesel to bridlington one year and that was in the way, but i had to get some serious speed up before being able to pull past.
im sure alot of it is down the the drivers.
so why eddie aint all car manufacturers make so called large power band diesels. are these not gonna last for as many miles at the old diesels?
both slower than my car.
i followed dangermouse_se in his diesel to bridlington one year and that was in the way, but i had to get some serious speed up before being able to pull past.
im sure alot of it is down the the drivers.
so why eddie aint all car manufacturers make so called large power band diesels. are these not gonna last for as many miles at the old diesels?
Yep if the drivers arn't changing up at the right point and in the VAGs' they always change up early and the Fords arn't much better due to the way the owner feels thre at the optimum power and changing up way to early.
WHy arn't they well they don't need to market doesn't demand it. No other manurfacturers doing is so why should they? Also 99% of drivers don't rev a car so a 2 to 3 k powerband is what they want.
BMW M4; S1000 RR
edde.
Bar the 318d, BMW have strong diesels in every class, the 204bhp 3.0 diesel was for example, the fastest production diesel on the road. Faster than Audi's 4.0TDI, and VW's V10 touareg. And now there is the 335d... Insane let me tell you, however it's auto only, not a massive problem, just a bit annoying at times and not nearly as involving.
VAG diesels are running 5 year old technology, even my Clio has something they don't.. Common rail. But then again Audi like to sit in the dark ages with a lot of things.
Bar the 318d, BMW have strong diesels in every class, the 204bhp 3.0 diesel was for example, the fastest production diesel on the road. Faster than Audi's 4.0TDI, and VW's V10 touareg. And now there is the 335d... Insane let me tell you, however it's auto only, not a massive problem, just a bit annoying at times and not nearly as involving.
VAG diesels are running 5 year old technology, even my Clio has something they don't.. Common rail. But then again Audi like to sit in the dark ages with a lot of things.
BMW M4; S1000 RR
Nothing wrong with it, it's a cheap car. And as such has many flaws. Massive lag at low RPM, 5th gear is too short, or perhaps a slightly longer 6th would've been more appropriate. But again, I'd have it over the equivalent power petrols.
Drive a 330d and you'll see what diesel power is about. No noticable lag at any speed, 90% torque from 1500RPM, peak power is near the redline, that's just the engine anyway.
850 T5. mmmm Turbo!
whats the 330 put out?
wonder what the 330 is like agains a Vee.
both 3.0 both gonna be about 250bhp right!
personally i think diesels have come along way, but then there has been billions spent in developing it. i wonder in 10 years, when diesels are as good as they are gonna get if petrols will start getting abit more attention. and all cars will have more than 100bhp per litre. and they all have turbos, just like diesels do.
wonder what the 330 is like agains a Vee.
both 3.0 both gonna be about 250bhp right!
personally i think diesels have come along way, but then there has been billions spent in developing it. i wonder in 10 years, when diesels are as good as they are gonna get if petrols will start getting abit more attention. and all cars will have more than 100bhp per litre. and they all have turbos, just like diesels do.
Ok had the test drive.
It was a 56 plate with 6000 on the clock.
Went in the dealer was with someone so chucked me the keys.
I took it out on my own for an hour and a half.
Went back to the showroom and gave him back the keys he asked how it was, I said great shook hands and that was really the end of that. No sell at all much to my suprise, which is just what I wanted as there is more chance of the pope turning to islam than there is of me buying from the stealers.
As for the engine itself (it was an DCi 86, of course the new shape which I don't want but the engine, I am informed, is very similar to the DCi 80):
I liked it. I took it on all types of road and I thought it was most impressive on the motorway. It seemed to pull well in both 4th and 5th here which is good as I do seem to do alot of this sort of driving.
I also took it for a spin round my favourite backroad. It is a mix of straights and all types of corners and bends. I found it annoying the way the rev band wasn't very large. If approaching a corner at 70 whereas in my 1.2 I would kick down to 4th or maybe even third I could not do this that much in the diesel as there was no power there.
In town however it was very nice, however not quite there did seem to be a little bit of lag between when I put my foot down and when it moved if wanting to accelerate in 3rd from 30 to 40.
The thing I liked the least however was the noise. Part of it may be due to the extra refinement offered by the new model and the sound insulation, but it felt as if the engine has no soul. Mine is only a 1.2 but with induction kit fitted gives a decent roar when it goes over 4000rpm. Not so at all with the diesel.
To conclude I liked the engine, covered ground much quicker than mine, however due to the lack of sound and high revs it was nowhere near as fun. However due to the extra fuel savings I will go with the diesel me thinks.
P.S. I only got 27mpg as I drove it (this better not be the bloody case everyday if i get one or else it isn't worth changing)
Sam
It was a 56 plate with 6000 on the clock.
Went in the dealer was with someone so chucked me the keys.
I took it out on my own for an hour and a half.
Went back to the showroom and gave him back the keys he asked how it was, I said great shook hands and that was really the end of that. No sell at all much to my suprise, which is just what I wanted as there is more chance of the pope turning to islam than there is of me buying from the stealers.
As for the engine itself (it was an DCi 86, of course the new shape which I don't want but the engine, I am informed, is very similar to the DCi 80):
I liked it. I took it on all types of road and I thought it was most impressive on the motorway. It seemed to pull well in both 4th and 5th here which is good as I do seem to do alot of this sort of driving.
I also took it for a spin round my favourite backroad. It is a mix of straights and all types of corners and bends. I found it annoying the way the rev band wasn't very large. If approaching a corner at 70 whereas in my 1.2 I would kick down to 4th or maybe even third I could not do this that much in the diesel as there was no power there.
In town however it was very nice, however not quite there did seem to be a little bit of lag between when I put my foot down and when it moved if wanting to accelerate in 3rd from 30 to 40.
The thing I liked the least however was the noise. Part of it may be due to the extra refinement offered by the new model and the sound insulation, but it felt as if the engine has no soul. Mine is only a 1.2 but with induction kit fitted gives a decent roar when it goes over 4000rpm. Not so at all with the diesel.
To conclude I liked the engine, covered ground much quicker than mine, however due to the lack of sound and high revs it was nowhere near as fun. However due to the extra fuel savings I will go with the diesel me thinks.
P.S. I only got 27mpg as I drove it (this better not be the bloody case everyday if i get one or else it isn't worth changing)
Sam
BMW M4; S1000 RR
You can't beat the little DCi's for cheap little cars. Free in London as of this week too. (£50 tax aint bad either).
BTW, if you're after noise, get a backbox for the DCI..... But a stainless system will improve MPG.
27mpg???? How did you get that with a 1.5 diesel??? I can't get that when attacking roads hard. As I said, 35mpg flat out at 100 and something.
And finally.
You enjoy the sound of a 1.2?? Dude. Get your head straight
BTW, if you're after noise, get a backbox for the DCI..... But a stainless system will improve MPG.
27mpg???? How did you get that with a 1.5 diesel??? I can't get that when attacking roads hard. As I said, 35mpg flat out at 100 and something.
And finally.
You enjoy the sound of a 1.2?? Dude. Get your head straight
Last edited:
Yeah with the induction kit the sound of the 1.2 adds to the driving experience for sure. Adds to the sense of speed and fun.
Yeah I just tried to keep it at 4000rpm to get max power all the time. And braking hard and late etc.
Yeah I will get a DCI as I cannot afford not to! My petrol bill is just over 300 quid a month and I am still in sixth form earning 400 a month!
Yeah I just tried to keep it at 4000rpm to get max power all the time. And braking hard and late etc.
Yeah I will get a DCI as I cannot afford not to! My petrol bill is just over 300 quid a month and I am still in sixth form earning 400 a month!
Thats just so wrong ! You don't get max power at high RPM's ! If you think so, you should not drive a diesel car ! Max power is always from the low RPM's where the torque is highest. Maxing out a diesel car wont get you flying ...
I must admit I was under the impression power (for cars) is measured in BHP or PS. Max BHP and PS comes at around 4000rpm on clio diesels. Thereby revving the car to 4000rpm and keeping it there utilises the maximum possible proportion of the engines power.
Correct me if I am wrong by all means.
Correct me if I am wrong by all means.
It is correct understood that max BHP/PS is measured at 4000 RPM (Clio II 1.5 DCI) . BUT that do not mean that max torque also is at the same RPM. And at max torque is where the car will rock (accelerate)!
Qoute:
"As mentioned above, diesel engines tend to have more torque at lower engine speeds than gasoline engines. However, diesel engines tend to have a narrower power band than gasoline engines. Naturally-aspirated diesels tend to lack power and torque at the top of their speed range."
Please read this article ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine
Last edited:
The quote doesn't tell us anything.
the top of the speed range is a relative term. This is to say that a petrol at 6000rpm will produce a higher proportion of total max power here than diesel at 6000rpm. But what I am saying is that to get the diesel moving fastest in a clio you need to play in the max POWER (as in max BHP output) range (4000rpm).
Are you telling me to get to 100mph quickest in your DCi you would not rev it to 4000rpm (max power)? Are you telling me you would change in such a way as to utilise the engines torque most efficiently, i.e. 2500rpm or whatever it is?
Sam
the top of the speed range is a relative term. This is to say that a petrol at 6000rpm will produce a higher proportion of total max power here than diesel at 6000rpm. But what I am saying is that to get the diesel moving fastest in a clio you need to play in the max POWER (as in max BHP output) range (4000rpm).
Are you telling me to get to 100mph quickest in your DCi you would not rev it to 4000rpm (max power)? Are you telling me you would change in such a way as to utilise the engines torque most efficiently, i.e. 2500rpm or whatever it is?
Sam
Just a question, what RPM should I be changing my gears in my DCi if im giving my mate a little race on the dual carrageway? cheers
I loved the DCI 80 courtesy car I had. Did 65mpg average and when you pulled out of a junction and put your foot down it went like a 182....until you get to 4krpm and then it just died.
If I down sized to a cheaper car I'd probably go for a diesel of similar spec to the one I had. Feels like a 2.0 at normal every day speeds. Only when you try to drive "fast" do you realise it isnt.
If I down sized to a cheaper car I'd probably go for a diesel of similar spec to the one I had. Feels like a 2.0 at normal every day speeds. Only when you try to drive "fast" do you realise it isnt.
BMW M4; S1000 RR
Oh dear....
Power is just torque produced at different engine speeds.
Torque low down means you can cruise economically. Torque low down also means it's creating more power (hp) lower down the rev band, meaning it will accelerate harder and more progressively.
If you're accelerating to 3k rpm and changing up, then you'll be accelerating slower than someone who is going to 4k rpm and changing up. Diesel doesn't mean you just put it in 5th and it will piss on a Porsche. It just has more power in general.
Ask yourself which would win out of a Porsche 911 Turbo (420bhp with a broad power band) and a Lamborghini Gallardo (500bhp with a narrow power band).... It's the Porsche that wins BTW, in every situation bar maybe top speed when it's just peak horse power that matters.
Power is just torque produced at different engine speeds.
Torque low down means you can cruise economically. Torque low down also means it's creating more power (hp) lower down the rev band, meaning it will accelerate harder and more progressively.
If you're accelerating to 3k rpm and changing up, then you'll be accelerating slower than someone who is going to 4k rpm and changing up. Diesel doesn't mean you just put it in 5th and it will piss on a Porsche. It just has more power in general.
Ask yourself which would win out of a Porsche 911 Turbo (420bhp with a broad power band) and a Lamborghini Gallardo (500bhp with a narrow power band).... It's the Porsche that wins BTW, in every situation bar maybe top speed when it's just peak horse power that matters.
BMW M4; S1000 RR
lol Exactly.
Think that's quite a good statement, although you might not realise that the last statement is a little unfounded...
A 1.5 diesel is surely meant to be competing with the 1.4s and 1.6s..... And if you're actually racing, then it's very close, and in different situations there might be different outcomes... Lots of corners then the fact the diesel has more torque will pull it out of them faster (not massively, but noticably for sure). Where if it was top speed, then the higher hp and longer last gear will prevail for the 1.4/1.6.
HOWEVER, instead of having a useless midrange like the 1.4/1.6. It has the midrange of a faster car.
Get a 2.0 diesel and a 2.0 petrol of equal power, the diesel will be faster by a bit. But driving round normally, it'll have the midrange of a 3.0 petrol.
Yes i am
The power band of a diesel engine is narraw as described in the article above. Therefore the power in the power band will drop quickly at a certain RPM. Like you can see here as a example: http://www.dieseldynamics.com/popup/images/ultlevels-tq.jpg
And when the engine looses power the car wont accelerate quite as fast. That means that it is better changing gear just before the engine looses power. And that point is not max RPM.
BMW M4; S1000 RR
If we're still talking about DCi 80s. Then max RPM is 5k. Change up at 4.5k in 1st. 4.5k in 2nd. 4k in 3rd and 4k in 4th. Unless you're going down a hill, in which case take them all the way.
BUT.
Corner time is where the diesels differ. Or getting ready to accelerate.
Coming out of a corner at 2.5k rpm in 4th, will be much more effective than 3.5k in 3rd. Because you'll get almost the same initial acceleration, but you won't need to change gear meaning you've just had a 30mph acclerate in 1 gear out of a corner.
I don't think so
But I hope some diesel experts like edde will see our litle discussion and answer.
BMW M4; S1000 RR
Look up a few posts and I have posted the answer!
850 T5. mmmm Turbo!
ha ha ha, nice one sam.
dont listen to jeff he drives on the hard shoulder!
26mpg sounds crap. seriously though im sure ud get used to a diesel. u have to drive it different to a petrol. i agree though, they aint no fun. unless your offroading in a field... maybe with a plough on the back!
lol
BMW M4; S1000 RR
lol
It is true.... The plough not the hard shoulder
It is true.... The plough not the hard shoulder
I said good power band, not just power
its not 5 year old technology as commen rail is just as old
VAG patented there technology, hence why its not used on other cars
Because they prefer there technology
yes, almost identicle engine
27 MPG is not right, even on a race circuit i struggle to get below 29.9
even at 110 it's still 37
you need to rev the diesel, it just feels quick at low RPM due to the way power is designed to arrive
no your right, you just have to remember to use the peak horse power curve, so 3 to 4K usually
depends on the engine, on mine its 4.2K in 1st then about 4K in the rest of the gearsJust a question, what RPM should I be changing my gears in my DCi if im giving my mate a little race on the dual carrageway? cheers
850 T5. mmmm Turbo!
depends on the engine, on mine its 4.2K in 1st then about 4K in the rest of the gearsJust a question, what RPM should I be changing my gears in my DCi if im giving my mate a little race on the dual carrageway? cheers
surly if your engine is producing maximum power at 4k, u dont wanna be putting the clutch in and changing gear at that point. surly ur gonna be wanting to be in gear at maximum power, u gotta change when it the accleration/rpm curve gets a neutral or negative rate of change!
NO?
this is why i like the petrol. just change when it starts limiting, easy!
I think the issue is if you look at a BHP/rev curve you will see that the power after 4k drops off very rapidly indeed (represented by very steep negative gradient), in relation to the steady climb in power up to the 4k point. When someone says change at 4K they depress the clutch at say 4050k (on rev dial).
As for the diesel I am sure I am right in saying that you certainly don't want to be red lining it.
I think the red line on my 1.2 is about 6700 something like that but after 5500 revs the power drops off.
As for the diesel I am sure I am right in saying that you certainly don't want to be red lining it.
I think the red line on my 1.2 is about 6700 something like that but after 5500 revs the power drops off.
You want maximum power so maybe change up at 5k, whilst you might be way out of power when you change up you'll oly be down to sat 3k wheras changing up at 4k would pust you at say 2k.
Its all about maximisisng power curve time.
The extra rpm ie 4k to 5k is great helps loads on track ask Yozzasport or BenR about the advanatge of the extra rpm even if there no power there.
Better still ask bikers they know how extra rpm even if there no power is great to have.
Similar threads
