172 Down on power!!!!Help Needed Please!!

[dangle172]

Hi everyone. I'm in need of some help with my 172. Its still not running right and seems to be down on power, the idle sounds very rough and lumpy and seems to have developed a harsh vibration through the steering wheel when i floor it in first and second. The car used to have a great deal of talk steer while flooring it but now its non existent. Its done 55000 miles and the timing belt has been done.. Any advise will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[Mark One]

When was the timing belt done and who did it. Often if the renault timing tools are not used / it's not done right, it will go back together slightly out of time which can take power down dramatically (130ish bhp from someone iirc??)

The problems sound like a few things. The harsh vibration - is that not just jumpy wheel spin (a mate had a name for it the other day but I can't remember it now). If so, that's difficult to get rid of without powerflex bushes in thhe wishbones and possibly top mounts too. Not to mention having the subframe wishbone holes looked at to see if they have been widened.

Poor cold idles can often be put down to lambda sensors needing to be replaced. Or if it's all the time and it occasionally cuts out, try the coilpack.

 

[clio-16-valver]

May I ask what fuel you use?

 

[Mark One]

It's a clio. as long as he's not running it on american limp wristed pump p1ss it'll be fine.

 

[Greeny.]

They are all down on power as standard 182's are worse.. and most RR's lie to make us feel better

 

[dangle172]

Thanks for the quick reply. The timing belt was done about 2 week ago and funnily enough the problem with it been down on power did start then. I did suspect that was the problem as i was told if the job had been done correctly that the seals on the end of the cam's should have been replaced and they haven't!!! The thing is i don't know what to do about it as the garage are saying the jobs been done properly and everything seems ok!! The rough idle Happens whether the engine's hot or cold and it seems worse since they done the timing belt too, and the misfire seems more frequent. I changed the plugs (gnk-r's) and its no better so im hoping new coil packs will work???
The vibration's not from wheel spin but i do know what your talking about as iv experienced it myself! It feels and sounds more mechanical to me and only starts when the engines hitting its power band ( about 4000rpm ish ). So iv stopped pushing it till i know what it is..
As for the fuel i only really use the cheap stuff ( 95 octane )but its never been a problem and the power drop is far too dramatic to be that! As for all clio sports been down on power, i think a twin cam paxo would been mine at the moment to be honest!!! But thanks for trying to make me feel better ha

 

[Fletcher]

May I ask what fuel you use?

Doesn't make any difference, unless it's mapped for higher ron imo.

 

[sideways danny]

Thanks for the quick reply. The timing belt was done about 2 week ago and funnily enough the problem with it been down on power did start then. I did suspect that was the problem as i was told if the job had been done correctly that the seals on the end of the cam's should have been replaced and they haven't!!! The thing is i don't know what to do about it as the garage are saying the jobs been done properly and everything seems ok!! The rough idle Happens whether the engine's hot or cold and it seems worse since they done the timing belt too, and the misfire seems more frequent. I changed the plugs (gnk-r's) and its no better so im hoping new coil packs will work???
The vibration's not from wheel spin but i do know what your talking about as iv experienced it myself! It feels and sounds more mechanical to me and only starts when the engines hitting its power band ( about 4000rpm ish ). So iv stopped pushing it till i know what it is..
As for the fuel i only really use the cheap stuff ( 95 octane )but its never been a problem and the power drop is far too dramatic to be that! As for all clio sports been down on power, i think a twin cam paxo would been mine at the moment to be honest!!! But thanks for trying to make me feel better ha

I'd be 99% sure the cam timing is wrong

 

[dangle172]

So is that another cam belt change?? where do you think i stand on getting my money back from the useless f$%kers who've put this one on wrong if i get Renault to right down the problems so i an show them?

 

[sideways danny]

no need to change it if it's very recent, it can be re-timed in about 2 hours. Wouldn't go to renault for it though, they mess up more than anyone. How much did you pay? might have to just chalk it up to experience TBH

 

[dangle172]

Thats good to know because iv been thinking the worst!! I paid 316.65 for it about 2 week ago. Iv done about 200 mile with the new belt on. I really hope they can use the same belt. What do you think about the vibration im getting? Cv joint?

 

[sideways danny]

that's cheap. If it costs you £100 to fix it you've still halved the bill from a renault dealer

No idea on vibration without looking, there's a whole list of common things to vibrate

 

[clio-16-valver]

Doesn't make any difference, unless it's mapped for higher ron imo.

So can anyone explain why my car is poop if you use 95 ron and even 97 but ok with v power and tesco?

It also says on your petrol cap 98 ron or above or atleast my 172 (and last one) did!

 

[Budgie]

It says 98ron recommended.

It's not essential.

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

I'd be 99% sure the cam timing is wrong

ditto, it's too much of a cooincidence and VERY common from Renault to balls it up

 

[TooneySonic]

get down to birchdown mate for them to check the timing plus fit new cam seals, either that or RSmurray in leeds

as dan said two hours labour max

 

[kevin_172]

i have had EXP of cam timing being out and trust me it makes SOOO much diffrence! but there could also be one other problem that not alot of people pick up on too... The VVT could have stopped working?

 

[stan*]

So is that another cam belt change?? where do you think i stand on getting my money back from the useless f$%kers who've put this one on wrong if i get Renault to right down the problems so i an show them?

Which garage in Carlisle did the work?

If they havnt replaced the cam seals, they havnt used the correct tools for timing.

 

[Mangate]

You could just have a misfire on one cylinder. Have you tried disconnecting the plugs one at a time when idling?

 

[Goodj]

if the VVT packed in, would that be an electrical issue, or would it maen some rocker somewhere had snaped?

 

[dangle172]

Thank's for the help everyone!!!!Well the garage that done the work are called westmoorland garage on durrenhill industrial estate. Im going to take it to a pug specialist on Friday for it's MOT so was going to ask there advise. How would i know if the VVT had packed in???

 

[Mangate]

From what I've read there is a solenoid that controls the VVT. It stops it kicking in until the engine is up to temperature so I would say there is an electrical element and a mechanical element to it's operation.
Do you still get the sudden surge of power when you hit 4000rpm?

 

[mark123]

The VVT solenoid kicks in at about 1500 rpm. The connector is on the top of the engine just behind the cam pulleys. I doubt they've touched it though as you don't need to to change the cam belt.

I would take it back and tell them you know they haven't used the timing tool because the seals are not new. If you are reasonably handy with spanners you could check it yourself. If you don't use the tools it is easy to get it wrong.

Or get a specialist to look at it and then take a report from him to the previous garage.

 

[Rossy197]

From what I've read there is a solenoid that controls the VVT. It stops it kicking in until the engine is up to temperature so I would say there is an electrical element and a mechanical element to it's operation.
Do you still get the sudden surge of power when you hit 4000rpm?

you sure about that ?? i'm sure 99.9% of 1*2's have that "kick" at 5k

 

[Chris n nic]

It is around there but it nothing to do with the VVT

Chris

 

[Fastchip]

How would i know if the VVT had packed in???

Disconnect the VVT solenoid connector and take it for a spin.
connect it again
take it for another spin. If you feel no difference chances are there is a problem with it.
Hook it up to a RSTuner or other diagnose equipment and you will know for sure.

 

[dangle172]

Well im en engineer so i can turn my hand to fixing anything but im a lazy sod so think ill have to get it on a diagnostics computer. Im taking it for its MOT tomorrow so im gonna ask them to look and listen to the timing and see what they say. Ill keep you all posted