172 not starting

[Matteh]

following on from my hot start thread, my engine now wont start at all

I'm getting no spark and as far as i can see, no injectors are firing.

the fuel pump is priming and I can feel the lines pressurise.

I'm getting temporary 12V at the coilpack when i turn the ignition on.

I bought a brand new CPS/TDC sensor from reno this morning and the extra bit of loom (£50 ffs!!) - I've tried connecting the wires both way.

the engine will just turn over and over and nothing will happen.

the ecu shouldnt be at fault because it was working a few days ago and the imobiliser has been removed/emulated (or something )

any other suggestions as to what I can try?

 

[geesus69]

are you getting 12v at the coil when cranking

if not this is EXACTLY the same problem i am having

was running fine and then i sorted some wriring connections on the fuel pump/coil relay and now it wont fire

this was the same problem i was having a while back, then one day while i was testing i got voltage at the coil under cranking and it fired into life! but now im back to not starting again

 

[Matteh]

im getting about 10.5-10.6v at the coil when cranking

 

[bmh.01]

The injectors definetly aren't pulsing? Got 12v on them? 10.5v is a little low, the battery definetly good and fully charged? If you've been cranking over on it a lot then it may have flattened it.

 

[Mark One]

gutted for you both. Sounds like a right ball ache

 

[Matteh]

the battery shows 12v normally and about 11v when cranking

all the constant lives and ignition lives show about half a volt less when cranking than on the battery...

the battery has been run down once, but ive put it in my other clio and run it for a few hours so it should be properly charged (it runs the mk1 just fine)

not tried testing the injectors... do i just test a voltage across the 2 pins?

 

[bmh.01]

When the injector lock relay is closed you should have 12v on pin 1 of every injector, the ECU grounds them to fire them. Should be the green wire on the diagrams i've got.

 

[Matteh]

12v on ignition live on pin 1 (purple wire)

again, 10.5v when cranking

 

[bmh.01]

Voltage on both but no spark or injector pulse has got to be CPS related. Got a good air gap and connection on the new bit of loom?

 

[bmh.01]

Resistance across the CPS should be 200-270ohms as well, something to check. Have you also got continuity from the CPS plug to the ECU plug with no high resistance as well?

 

[Matteh]

i think it was 235ohms when i tested it when i bought it this morning

i'll go test for continuity from the plug to the ecu now

 

[Matteh]

good continuity to the ecu (not even 1 ohm on either connection)

i get about 2300ohms over the CPS sensor though...(unless im reading it wrong "230" on the "2000" setting)

 

[bmh.01]

No that should be 230ohms as it out of range of the 0-200ohms setting. Thats very very weird then I can only guess its not seeing the pulses as the crank turns.

As assuming everything else is ok (seems like it) then it should be sparking and injecting as it sees fit with the crank pulses.

I'm assuming you don't have the OBDII port anymore? So no way of finding if the ECU is seeing the CPS pulses.

 

[Matteh]

no obd port

it cant be a crank sensing problem can it? unlikey for the flywheel to break

 

[bmh.01]

No but it looks like the ECU isn't seeing the crack pulse so it doesn't know where the pistons are so its not sparking or injecting fuel.

 

[Matteh]

but it cant be the CPS or the flywheel...

so looks to be an ecu problem

i wonder if anything was soldered on to the ecu (a chip or carrier etc..) and its broken off or something?

 

[bmh.01]

But why isn't it the cps? Imo just testing the resistance of the sensor doesn't mean its working properly. Just that its not completely fucked.

 

[Matteh]

for my original one to fail as im driving along and for the brand new one from reno this morning (fresh out the bag) to both be borked?

 

[bmh.01]

Pass, its possible I guess. Has it still got no lambda on it? Trouble is which not diagnostics your guessing every step of the way with something like it.

Its the only thing I can think of that will stop it fueling and sparking when you've got voltage on both. That or as you say the ECU is fecked.

 

[Matteh]

i must've done maybe a mile before it conked out (round the block a few times) without a lambda...

can't imagine that would've damaged anything? :S

cheers for your help though

 

[Matteh]

just to add

the way i was seeing if petrol was being injected was the same method i use on the mk1s.. i.e. take the plugs out and see if little puffs of petrol come out when cranking over

 

[ditz]

both ways you have checked for spark and fuel arent conclusive at all, do it properly. take a plug lead off the coil pack and get somone to crank it it will blatently obvious if you have a spark.
with fuel you can either check you have fuel pressure then check for inejction pulse by putting a screwdriver on the injector put your ear to it and listen for the click (or use a noid light)

or you can just unbolt the rail pull it out and see if it squrts fuel

 

[Matteh]

i have removed the plenum and have the leads connected to the coil still but near the engine and there is no spark on turnover at all

i have fuel pressure - but will take the rail off tomorrow and see if anything fires

normally you can hear the injectors, but I can't...

 

[bmh.01]

If the upper inlet is off can you see the injectors spraying?

 

[tyni_clio]

as far as i know if ur able 2 view the injector an get someone to crank her, you shud be able 2 see petrol spray, ive been readin this thread frm the beginning an not sure if you guys found the fault, but when i had a shitty corsa, my ECU died out, frm the symptoms you's are gettin, but i had changed distribitors, leads, plugs, then the brain died...

 

[Matteh]

whoops - i am getting injectors firing

looks like its a coilpack issue then!

 

[bmh.01]

Well done! lol

 

[Matteh]

 

[Matteh]

next question - f4r730 and f4r732 coil packs are different yeh?

 

[bmh.01]

Didn't think so? Hold on i'll check on dialogys.

 

[bmh.01]

Nope, same part number on dialogys. So i'm assuming they're all the same.

 

[Matteh]

oh sweet - means gsf will have one!

 

[geesus69]

im so hoping you are going to solve this problem so i can try it on mine lol

 

[Russ_16v]

also just out of interest, i had a bad missfire on mine on clyinder 1 according to the box of tricks,took out the plugs and there were all sparking! no 1 was sparking fine but in thecar it didnt fire,so not always as easy as i first thought

 

[Matteh]

i have voltage at the coil though ad

 

[geesus69]

i have voltage at the coil though ad

true, dammit :dapprove:

 

[bmh.01]

Doesn't mean its stepping it up though.

Primary side should measure 0.5ohm approx
Secondary side should measure 10.7kohm approx

 

[Matteh]

New coil pack- no sparks

I've got the leads connected to the coilpack and they're just sitting on the camcover... should see them spark shouldn't I?

 

[bmh.01]

New coil pack- no sparks

I've got the leads connected to the coilpack and they're just sitting on the camcover... should see them spark shouldn't I?

You've got a plug in the end right?

 

[Matteh]

no, but don't they normally spark with the camcover?