172 Ph1 with bizarre idle

[TheCake]

Hello All (blast from the past!)

As I'm sure Ang has posted, we've acquired a Sunflower Yellow Ph1 172 a few months back. Its a great little car, love it to bits.

However, recently we (ok, so I) gave it a decent service and clean all the gunk out of the throttle body. It needed one and it ran like a dream for a few days until it started really struggling to drive.

It would stall when you approach junctions, the throttle cable/body was sticking too. So I proceeded to clean the throttle body which didn't help things and also I replaced the throttle cable (b*****d of a job).

After doing this, it made no real difference so a search later it was looking like the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) was a amiss, but unfortunately you can't buy these from Renault so it seems. I picked up a replacement throttle body from Specialist Renault Breakers (thanks guys) which came last week. I swapped it over after a quick clean up and unfortunately, we still have the same problem.

I had a good hunt around it looks like the Idle Control Valve might be the guilty party but I'm really plucking at straws now and running out of ideas. The stalling issue seems to be fixed with the new TB after a good blow through and also the replacement cable seems to have done no harm at all but in traffic it seems to idle anywhere from 800-2000rpm and will fluctuate around at will.

Part - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Idle-air-cont...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item20ada66a0c

Thread - http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=471355&highlight=ICV

Anyone able to shed any further light on this?! Help deeply appreciated.

 

[caister]

It'll be the ICV. I got one off of ebay but you need to be prepared to drill the old one off the unit it connects too and rivet or bolt the replacement one on.

 

[TheCake]

Sweet. Thanks matey. Its doing our head in. Is it on the back of the inlet manifold?

 

[Russ_16v]

It'll be the ICV. I got one off of ebay but you need to be prepared to drill the old one off the unit it connects too and rivet or bolt the replacement one on.

The icv is bolted to the back of the inlet matey :S

Sweet. Thanks matey. Its doing our head in. Is it on the back of the inlet manifold?

Thats it , on the right hand side, has an electrical plug and a pipe that runs to the inlet elbow.

If you want i have a spare ICV for sale mate? Drop me a PM if you wish?

Also, check out my t/b guide in the guide section, as well as cleaning the t/b out, you need to re-oil it in a certain way, i had a good year of trouble with this, i tried 2 icv's and 2 t/b's before i sat down and worked out what to do and iv put it in a guide, i be that may solve your problem, as cleaning out the t/b and not re-lubing it can actually make make things worse

 

[TheCake]

Well, as Russ has foudn out in a my PM to him we haven't been able to cure this despite a new IACV from him as well as a replacement Throttle Body from Renault Specialist breakers.

However, we've found that if the revs start to climb putting the engine under some load, i.e. putting the fans on, or the heated rear view mirror instantly drops the revs and it starts idling normally.

Battery problem? Earth from the battery? I'm exhausting most ideas!

 

[caister]

The icv is bolted to the back of the inlet matey :S

I meant that if he got one from ebay it does not come as a complete unit so the old one need's to be drilled off of the unit that's its on and the replacement refixed by bolts or rivets.

I'm really not special enough to think it needs drilling off of the inlet.

 

[Russ_16v]

Lol sorry mate i didnt realise you were on about the one off Ebay

 

[caister]

Back to the original problem!! Its starting to sound like an air leak somewhere

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Try blocking the iscv with your thumb, just to be 100% that's it's fully closed when the idle is high.

If that makes no difference give the TB a good pull to make sure it's shut - it might even need adjusting as there is an adjuster.

I'm sure you've done all that, but thought I'd cover it anyway.

After that, yes, air leak, you have a MAP sensor and TPS as well as injector bosses, gaskets and egg shaped oil seal, so plenty of places to check

 

[DannoTheGreat]

Where can i get one of the egg shaped gaskets from? Iv been to Renault an they couldnt find it on the system

 

[Andrew Cooke]

oops, not TPS, obviously I meant air temp sensor

 

[caister]

Where can i get one of the egg shaped gaskets from? Iv been to Renault an they couldnt find it on the system

Would have thought its renault only TBH they can't be looking hard enough.

 

[TheCake]

Does anyone know what some of these parts look like? Any clues appreciated? Or if you can post an annotated engine pic it would be superb!

Andrew, you mentioned "MAP sensor and TPS as well as injector bosses, gaskets and egg shaped oil seal, so plenty of places to check" - could you point some of these out?

We've replaced the T/B with another one and this included a TPS so its logically not that as replacement has not cured the fault.

Further info T/B definately closes when idling high, you can hear it snap shut instantly - its well lubed.

 

[Russ_16v]

Does anyone know what some of these parts look like? Any clues appreciated? Or if you can post an annotated engine pic it would be superb!

Andrew, you mentioned "MAP sensor and TPS as well as injector bosses, gaskets and egg shaped oil seal, so plenty of places to check" - could you point some of these out?

.

The MAP senor is the sensor on the far left of the inlet manifold
Air temp sensor is the smal sensor in the far right runner of the inlet manifold
The egg shaped seal is the o-ring that goes between the cylinder head and the inlet mani, it seals when you bolt down the top part of the inlet mani mate

 

[TheCake]

Russ - can you do me an idiots picture with arrows? Sorry bud! Edd-shaped one, I know where that is - don't worry!

 

[DannoTheGreat]

Would have thought its renault only TBH they can't be looking hard enough.

Tossers, i'll get back down there!

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Tossers, i'll get back down there!

try 7700109420

 

[DannoTheGreat]

Awesome, cheers fella

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Awesome, cheers fella

no guarantee given or implied...

 

[Russ_16v]

Russ - can you do me an idiots picture with arrows? Sorry bud! Edd-shaped one, I know where that is - don't worry!

I l find an old pic matey, i cant take any new ones as i dont have any standard inlet bits any more

 

[TheCake]

I'll upload a photo at the weekend if we're still revving. Ang said the idle has stopped being eratic and is now glued at like 2,000rpm so going to try what you recommended on the ICV but other than that going to strip it all down and check it on Saturday after qualifying at Monaco.

Thank chaps!

 

[Russ_16v]

And do what i said in my last PM!

 

[TheCake]

:star:

And do what i said in my last PM!

I will, I will!!!! :star:

 

[TheCake]

For all those still following this problem... example of problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLtnmV2jJRc&feature=youtube_gdata

As I've told Russ in a PM... Out of shot in the video I turn on the heated rear window and AC which you'll see are off in one shot and on in the next.... (!) as these stop it from over revving.

 

[TheCake]

Ok so full list of issues..

1. Air Con makes a weird wooshy noise when you switch it on and its not cold at all.
2. Fuel consumption is dreadful, truly dreadful
3. If driving along, say 40-50mph if you put the clutch down the car will rev on its own from 1,000 to 2,000 revs.

Very puzzling.

 

[-KarL-]

ICV had this on mine lasted a month then i couldnt take anymore and forked out the £70 :dapprove:

 

[TheCake]

karl, Would you say you had identical problems? Over revving is probably the most annoying thing (like 2000rpm in traffic) but the fuel consumption and the revs bouncing up and down willy nilly....

if I can diagnose it down to an ICV I'll just buy another one... LOL

 

[TheCake]

Ok so just been for a run. She started revving at 1800rpm, Pulled ICSV hose off the inlet elbow, shoved my thumb in the end of the hose and the revs dropped fine and she idled properly.

Faulty ICV?

 

[TheCake]

Ran my OBDII tool this morning. 2 errors, P0136 and P0141

O2 Sensor Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
and
O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 2)

I'm guessing that's a Lambda sensor + a.n.other?

 

[TheCake]

this might be fixed.... swapped the 2nd hand throttle body for the original one and put it all back together.

Idle's nicely at 750-800rpm, doesn't stall, will do it in traffic, fuel economy seems to return.

My honest opinion ICV failure. Fingers crossed its fixed.