182 crank seal oil leak

[ripp]

Hi there guys,

Been a good and a sad day for me yesterday, I went to the first trackday this year, the car had recently been sorted for some issues and it really was a great day, perfect weather, managed a good time, etc.
As I was saying one of the recent problems was an oil leak from the crank seal, the one near the flywheel, I had it addressed, changed the seal BUT.. the mechanic said that he found some sort scratches on the crank surface that contacts that seal and the fact that ot could wheep oil once again at some point but for the moment "it should be fine" I thought I stay positive and enjoy the car which also had a new clutch and service done, a faulty abs light sorted also and she drove really nice after.
Untill yesterday when I saw after the 20 min session the oil film that covered the inside of the front right wheel, and a good area of the subframe also.. ?
What happens is the oil gets out through that seal, ends up on the back of the flywheel and imagine at 7000rpm how that fly sparays oil everywhere, including at a tiny hole beteeen the gearbox bell housing and the engine (strange how renault left that gap there) and from there on the oil goes onto the subframe and stuff and on the inside of the front right wheel.
Strange how the front left is dry though but anyway..
I read about the possible causes which include crank case increased pressure that could squirt out oileven if the seal and crank are ok but I'm trying to get to the bottom of it step by step.

First of all why is the crank scratched in that area? Surely a rubber seal can't do that, or let's say it will leave a tiny uniform mark over time which shouldn't be an issue with a new seal.
Second of all if there is a crank case increased pressure how can I determine if it really is?
Or how can I get to the bottom of it without rebuilding the whole engine especially now when I have a newborn?...
For those that had the patience to read what's your advice?
Cheers!
P. S: the car drinks about 1.5liters of oil between services, every 6000 miles if that helps a bit

 

[NorthloopCup]

1) Are you sure he’s fitted the crank seal properly? They’re notoriously easy to install incorrectly as the face of the block isn’t on the vertical, so the seal needs to stick out at the top.

2) Fit a catch tank and see if it fills with oil to see how much crankcase pressure you’ve got. If it fills the tank pretty fast, it’s a safe bet that it’s fucked - either top end, so valve guides worn, or bottom end, rings worn out.

The f4r has the breather transfer tubes in the rear of the block up into the cylinder head and then into the cover where they get diverted to the inlet tract and reburnt.

The f4r engine shouldn’t drink any oil really, but 1.5ltrs in 6000 miles isn’t horrendous though tbf, but it does potentially point towards wear in those areas mentioned above. Most car manufacturers state 1ltr per 1000km is acceptable!!
Is it dropping the oil from the crank seal? Or is that more of a weep?

 

[ripp]

1. Can't be sure how he fitted the seal as I saw the car when it was fully done. Tbh I didn't even knew about the correct fitment of the seal! Bugger that's a tough one to check now ?
2. I have a breather filter fitted as I have a silicone induction hose that replaced the original but it doesn't look too dirty or that is dripping oil
Those breather transfer tubes where are they exactly?
I can't see an oil spot under the car so my guess is that it wheeps at high revs only or very little when normal driving.

 

[NorthloopCup]

1. Can't be sure how he fitted the seal as I saw the car when it was fully done. Tbh I didn't even knew about the correct fitment of the seal! Bugger that's a tough one to check now ?
2. I have a breather filter fitted as I have a silicone induction hose that replaced the original but it doesn't look dirty or that is dripping oil
Those breather transfer tubes where are they exactly?
I can't see an oil spot under the car so my guess is that it wheeps at high revs only or very little when normal driving.

They’re in the block mate, so you’ll never see them unless you’ve got the head off. Some return oil back to the sump and some allow the crankcase to be depressurised.

 

[STEVE.M]

1) Are you sure he’s fitted the crank seal properly? They’re notoriously easy to install incorrectly as the face of the block isn’t on the vertical, so the seal needs to stick out at the top.

/QUOTE]

Do what?

 

[ripp]

That looks flush, how is it supposed to stick out? Any pic with one fitted that way? Also does this get specified in the repair manual?

 

[STEVE.M]

That looks flush, how is it supposed to stick out? Any pic with one fitted that way? Also does this get specified in the repair manual?

See 1618

https://www.cliosport.net/threads/icemans-britcar-endurance-project-182.552273/page-41

 

[bloke]

seen plenty of seals wear the thing they are sealing.

 

[Brigsy]

seen plenty of seals wear the thing they are sealing.

Ive noticed a weep from most f4r crank seals clio or meg and at low mileage. Does the crank wear bad on these and can you get away with moving the crank seal slightly to accomodate for wear ? Ive not had the pleasure of doing a crank seal yet but looks like oem tool is needed to save damaging it when fitting.

 

[bloke]

Ive noticed a weep from most f4r crank seals clio or meg and at low mileage. Does the crank wear bad on these and can you get away with moving the crank seal slightly to accomodate for wear ? Ive not had the pleasure of doing a crank seal yet but looks like oem tool is needed to save damaging it when fitting.

i've only ever seen two crank seals weeping and one was my c**k up as i didn't knock it in enough when i built the engine. you sure you not mixing it up with sump seal as that's common to leak?

 

[AS1]

Can I assume that black oil seals are probably original and red ones have been replaced?
My crank seal (pulley side) is black and leaking while the cam seal is red and dry.
If the cam seal was replaced, then I find it odd that they didn't replace the crank seal.

 

[bloke]

seals can vary in colour but pretty sure all crank seals i've seen have been black?

 

[AS1]

I got the old crank oil seal out together with a spacer ring.

I did a bit of a assessment.
I can easily turn the oil pump gear when sticking my finger in there. I can push the space ring all the way in.
So apparently the spacer ring presses against the oil pump gear which subsequently is locked with the crankshaft when everything is installed.

When installing the new oil seal it needs be pressed in far enough so it sits flush with the spacer.
Is there anything I could f'up ?

 

[AS1]

Oh and the new oil seal is black. So there goes my theory about oil seal colors...

 

[AS1]

The new seal I got is a PTFE one.
I found a useful video:
Takeaways: do not grease the seal and use the supplied cap for installation

 

[bozothenutter]

well, that explains why mine leaks a bit after replacing the seal when i did the gearbox........

 

[AS1]

https://www.victorreinz.com/functions/csdownload3.aspx?id=145&org=002&key=a32e8ddf2294b43b571a5a74ebe7443f55a7e3a00e1002a4a10797e0cc4d0099

1. Only remove PTFE oil seals from their protective packaging immediately before installation, to protect them from dust and other contamination.

2. The sealing lip of PTFE oil seals is protected by a plastic sleeve, which can normally be used as an assembly aid. Therefore, the sleeve should remain in place until the seal has been installed.

3. If the seal is to be installed without the sleeve, use the special tool provided by the manufacturer.

4. Both the PTFE sealing lip and the TIP FROM THE EXPERTS shaft surface must be completely dry. Do not use any grease or oil.

5. The shaft may not exhibit any sharp-edged chamfers – if necessary, have the edges removed by an engine expert.

6. The shaft surface must be in a perfect condition – also here, possible damage must be repaired by an expert.

7. Position the assembly sleeve with the PTFE oil seal on the shaft.

8.Make sure that the sealing ring is aligned correctly – the sleeve must be located so that the seal can be pushed onto the shaft smoothly.

9.Push the sealing ring onto the shaft with an even motion.

10.When replacing, the PTFE lip of the new seal should not run in the same position as the old one.

11. You can now remove the assembly sleeve.

12. Do not start the engine sooner than four hours after installation – this permits the new sealing lip to adapt perfectly to the shaft.