182 vs Trophy- can you tell the difference on the road?

[Patrick Bateman]

The reason I'm asking is my Trophy is on cup springs and dampers at the minute (front) because one of the sachs dampers was leaking slightly and needs a refurb. They were previously done in 2013 by Cornering Force.

Now I didn't notice an issue in driving the car hard while on the sachs dampers despite the oil leak (granted performance may have deteriorated gradually although I've read that it's meant to be obvious when they're not working right) and since changing over to the cup springs and dampers (used, not brand new) I swear I can't really notice a difference in hard cornering, only a less jarring ride about town and such like.

Obviously the only way to know for sure would be to drive the Trophy with freshly refurbished dampers but part of me is concerned that the main thing that makes a Trophy so special is something that I wouldn't even be able to notice the benefit from in hard driving (while being bloody expensive to sort in the process).

Anyone been in a similar position and then had a direct comparison with the freshly refurbished Sachs?

The fact the car is irritating me with niggles at the minute doesn't help but the thought of splashing out to get the dampers done and barely feeling a difference is something that would grate.

 

[Stefan.]

You will notice the difference once refurbed.
They are not classed as one of the best hot hatches ever for no reason.

 

[imprezaworks]

Never driven one, but would be dissapointed if it wasn't great.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Never driven one, but would be dissapointed if it wasn't great.

I suppose even if I did get them done and didn't notice a big enough difference it'd still be easier to sell the car and recoup the cost vs. selling with the dampers needing done.

If it came to that I'd fancy another 182 and put the extra funds towards a third car.

 

[imprezaworks]

Yeah would do that tbh

 

[ForceIndia]

You'll notice the difference. If you don't, sell up and buy a Daewoo.

 

[alistairolsen]

Never tried a trophy, but I have had a 172 on cup dampers and eibachs and various other hot hatches on a multitude of suspension setups.
The 172 is good enough that on the road you're normally limited by visibility/road condition etc even on an empty road, so sure the Sachs may be better, but not by enough for it to ever actually matter.
IMHO very few people buy a trophy because theyre better to drive (or theyd buy a 182 and modify it) they but it for what it is, because the halo model status matters to them.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the vast majority of people wouldn't notice. They might think they notice, but that doesn't mean that they did. The only real difference most people might notice is if the ride quality alters, but your average joe is very unlikely to notice handling differences in the real world.

 

[ForceIndia]

Never tried a trophy, but I have had a 172 on cup dampers and eibachs and various other hot hatches on a multitude of suspension setups.
The 172 is good enough that on the road you're normally limited by visibility/road condition etc even on an empty road, so sure the Sachs may be better, but not by enough for it to ever actually matter.
IMHO very few people buy a trophy because theyre better to drive (or theyd buy a 182 and modify it) they but it for what it is, because the halo model status matters to them.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the vast majority of people wouldn't notice. They might think they notice, but that doesn't mean that they did. The only real difference most people might notice is if the ride quality alters, but your average joe is very unlikely to notice handling differences in the real world.

On track, I'm not sure there's a big difference tbh, especially with decent stuff (kw etc). But on the road, the difference is more noticeable. Very noticeable once pushing on.

An average Joe might not notice. But why is an average Joe buying a 182 or a trophy?

 

[alistairolsen]

Depends who you regard as average. I'm fairly sure @massivewangers meant the average hot hatch buyer, as opposed to the average car buyer.

I still very much doubt that there is a difference that can be exploited without being a danger to others.

 

[ForceIndia]

Depends who you regard as average. I'm fairly sure @massivewangers meant the average hot hatch buyer, as opposed to the average car buyer.

I still very much doubt that there is a difference that can be exploited without being a danger to others.

I've owned several 1*2's, using 4 or 5 different coilovers (all decent stuff), and a trophy. You're very, very, very wrong.

 

[Mr Plums]

I have heard from a couple of trophy owners that theres little to no difference, one was very disappointed.

Ive never driven one so i cant comment.

 

[alistairolsen]

I've owned several 1*2's, using 4 or 5 different coilovers (all decent stuff), and a trophy. You're very, very, very wrong.

So youve genuinely spent time driving on uk roads, within a reasonable percentage of the legal limit (lets say sub 80mph), where you could see your stopping distance to be clear and see the road surface was reasonable and found the handling of a 172 on coilovers to be the limiting factor to making progress?

 

[Goodj]

It's a Clio 182 Cup with different struts. That's it.
Stick some well set-up Bilsteins on a 182 and you've got, pretty much, the same car.

But that's not an entirely fair comparison, as 1 is stock from the factory, the other is aftermarket.

 

[ForceIndia]

So youve genuinely spent time driving on uk roads, within a reasonable percentage of the legal limit (lets say sub 80mph), where you could see your stopping distance to be clear and see the road surface was reasonable and found the handling of a 172 on coilovers to be the limiting factor to making progress?

You're not actually reading what has been posted. At no point have i said that a trophy is quicker, or that standard (or coilovers)are a limiting factor.

What I've said is that you'll notice a difference. The wheel control, for example is superb on the Sachs, and you can feel that when pressing on. It's more composed, especially over poor surfaces, and you don't have to be going flat out to notice.

They feel different, and feel is what that sort of car is all about.

 

[alistairolsen]

I have read what you've said, you've just not said much and what you did say wasnt addressing the points you quoted.

I said 'a difference that can be exploited', in response to the OP discussing hard cornering - if the difference is solely feel, composure and ride quality then we're back to the OPs original point in that there is no real difference in hard cornering, only in ride quality and composure as he described, and my earlier point that one buys a trophy because it's a trophy, not because its twice as good as a 182.

 

[Goodj]

Going from what Mr @ForceIndia says, the increase in perceived control would give a driver more confidence to push, thus giving the opportunity for higher apex speeds.
So, yes, there can be a difference "in hard cornering", it all depends on the driver

 

[Martin_172]

big difference on typical Scottish B roads, it handles the bumps and dips a lot better! 182 cup setup is by no means bad though!

 

[r0ss172]

My ph1 was the best handling and most fun to drive out of the 5 clio's (1x ph1, 1x 172 cup, 3x 182FF) i owned, so i would expect the trophy to drive and feel better than that... not driven a Trophy though so couldn't comment properly.

 

[ForceIndia]

I have read what you've said, you've just not said much and what you did say wasnt addressing the points you quoted.

I said 'a difference that can be exploited', in response to the OP discussing hard cornering - if the difference is solely feel, composure and ride quality then we're back to the OPs original point in that there is no real difference in hard cornering, only in ride quality and composure as he described, and my earlier point that one buys a trophy because it's a trophy, not because its twice as good as a 182.

Go and drive one, come back with an informed opinion, then discuss it.

Meanwhile, I'll try and figure out how feel, composure and ride quality can ever be described as 'only'. I'm not sure what else I'd expect from suspension changes at road speeds.

 

[McGherkin]

Have you ever been driving along and thought 'I can feel the damper struts flexing, and I would really make use of having thicker struts'

 

[Sir_Dave]

Personally, i found it fairly easy to notice the difference between a normal 1*2, the Trophy and the Trophy on H&R coilovers.
I did a brief write-up on the latter two options here: Sir_Dave's Trophy. 1 x Miley Shed.
The beauty of the T is that it was 100% OEM from the manufacturer, you can achieve a similar handling balance with a correctly adjusted coilover setup, but thats aftermarket, so not really comparing apples with apples.

 

[ForceIndia]

Have you ever been driving along and thought 'I can feel the damper struts flexing, and I would really make use of having thicker struts'

That wasn't the question asked!

Can you notice the difference? Yes, quiteeasily.

End thread.

 

[ForceIndia]

Personally, i found it fairly easy to notice the difference between a normal 1*2, the Trophy and the Trophy on H&R coilovers.
I did a brief write-up on the latter two options here: Sir_Dave's Trophy. 1 x Miley Shed.
The beauty of the T is that it was 100% OEM from the manufacturer, you can achieve a similar handling balance with a correctly adjusted coilover setup, but thats aftermarket, so not really comparing apples with apples.

My ph1 was arguably more fun, but the suspension cost more than the car, and it wasn't as capable for road use.

 

[alistairolsen]

Now I didn't notice an issue in driving the car hard while on the sachs dampers despite the oil leak (granted performance may have deteriorated gradually although I've read that it's meant to be obvious when they're not working right) and since changing over to the cup springs and dampers (used, not brand new) I swear I can't really notice a difference in hard cornering, only a less jarring ride about town and such like.

Obviously the only way to know for sure would be to drive the Trophy with freshly refurbished dampers but part of me is concerned that the main thing that makes a Trophy so special is something that I wouldn't even be able to notice the benefit from in hard driving (while being bloody expensive to sort in the process).

Go and drive one, come back with an informed opinion, then discuss it.

Meanwhile, I'll try and figure out how feel, composure and ride quality can ever be described as 'only'. I'm not sure what else I'd expect from suspension changes at road speeds.

I'm really not sure what you're missing here.

In a performance car, the prime reason for suspension tuning is to increase performance. The OP has observed already that the ride is better on Sachs, but cornering seems no different.

I posted to say that within sensible speeds on the road, there is likely no difference in hard cornering performance and that what makes a trophy special is the fact it a throphy, a factory special, not that its a clio 182 with some Sachs dampers.

You then posted twice to rubbish everyone elses opinions without actually saying anything, before coming back to agree with the OP and myself that the the only difference in fact is ride, not cornering performance and are now picking argument with the use of the word only.

I'm out.

 

[Goodj]

In fairness, at "normal road speeds" you may as well be in an Initiale DCi for all the difference pink bodywork and Sachs dampers make

 

[Martin_172]

I'm really not sure what you're missing here.

In a performance car, the prime reason for suspension tuning is to increase performance. The OP has observed already that the ride is better on Sachs, but cornering seems no different.

I posted to say that within sensible speeds on the road, there is likely no difference in hard cornering performance and that what makes a trophy special is the fact it a throphy, a factory special, not that its a clio 182 with some Sachs dampers.

You then posted twice to rubbish everyone elses opinions without actually saying anything, before coming back to agree with the OP and myself that the the only difference in fact is ride, not cornering performance and are now picking argument with the use of the word only.

I'm out.

there is a big difference between a freshly rebuilt (or new) set of sachs and the performance of them after many thousand miles and with one leaking though!

 

[knocker]

I'm an old git at 47 and owned many clios 172 cups 182 cups V6s and a a 36k trophy and I know my way around a race track.
You may not like this but it's a free country the Trophy is overrated buy yourself a nice 172 Cup with a good suspension set up your home and dry.

 

[green]

I've owned a ph1 from new, a 172 cup and the Trophy
The Trophy in standard form is just a better clio than a standard 1*2 or a cup and they look the dogs!

 

[RMDavis]

I'm an old git at 47 and owned many clios 172 cups 182 cups V6s and a a 36k trophy and I know my way around a race track.
You may not like this but it's a free country the Trophy is overrated buy yourself a nice 172 Cup with a good suspension set up your home and dry.

I sold my SACH's on and replaced them with B14's. As I ran 2118's and hated the arch gap.

Now granted my Trophy was far from standard, but in my opinion it was a much better car on the Bilsteins!

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

 

[ForceIndia]

I've run b14's. They're decent, but for road use the Sachs were better (for me), and for track the kw v2's offer great adjustability. But I've never fitted suspension for looks.

B14'S, great for the money though.

 

[knocker]

B14's are a good quality shock ideal for road use and don't need rebuilding every 2 years.

 

[ed55j]

I personally preferred the handling of my 172 cup on B14's (on softer springs for the road) than the Trophy on the Sachs.

 

[RMDavis]

Just to clarify I never fitted the B14's just for 'looks' after shelling out on a Quaife, my budget could only just stretch to a set of Bilsteins, and for the money they can't be beaten.

I'm hoping the B16's I've just fitted to my Impreza are just as good!

I don't understand why many people say that the B14's are too soft for track use? Of course it's down to personal preference, but they certainly never held me back and not once did I think 'these are too soft'

In fact I'm sure anyone that witnessed my antics around Blyton last year would agree with me?

Coilovers aside... You want a Clio that you can push on track? Fit a diff.

End of!

But then I am going a little off topic.


Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

 

[Kyle beresford]

I've had the pleasure of driving many Renault sports at great length due to working for a Renault main dealer and I feel people's expectations of a trophy are way over the top,thinking the dampers will shave half a month off a lap time or will magically make it push zonda R's round spa,the dampers are not racing items despite what people believe,they are just very good remote resovoir struts,yes I noticed a difference compared to other 1*2's but in my honest opinion not enough to justify the 2-3k price difference between the models.I chose to buy a trophy because it was the best version of a great hot hatch,mine gets used as a daily driver/weekend toy and track car and is great at all the jobs I've thrown at it.