197 cams fitting

[adir]

hey... i saw few thread about 197 cams on 172.
but i didn't find any guide about fitting them.
i have my own garage at home... and know how to work on the car, but how complicate is it to fit the 197 cams with proper timing ?
is it worth dealing with ?
thx in advance

 

[bloke]

proper timing is an interesting one:wink:

 

[adir]

Sorry for my terrible English
I mention by that for getting the cames in the right direction.
As I saw in few thread here, the original marks on the cams, with the 172, won't change alot, if any...

 

[masekwm]

It's the timing of them that gets more power and they don't go in the standard position

 

[adir]

Wondering if there's some guid about installing them in the right position, or something close...
I have working 50 miles 197 engine.
Was thinking about the cams for abit of upgrade, since I've already need to replace the belt.

 

[bloke]

Sorry for my terrible English 😧

your english is fine. people just make a bit of a thing about the timing being a big kept secret when using them. my advice though, go for cams designed for the engine.

It's the timing of them that gets more power and they don't go in the standard position

i'm so tempted to put the cat among the pigeons on that one:wink:

 

[davo172]

Go on then !:tonguewink:

 

[dangerous dave]

They sound like pub talk..

Just pretend you fitted them and keep the money in the bank.

 

[bloke]

Go on then !:tonguewink:

oh no...peer pressure...must resist...must resist:innocent:

 

[Sideways182]

Unless they are timed up properly you won't get much out of them.
You don't get much out of them even with "top secret" timing. More pull right up at the top end and a lovely induction note. Given the option again i'd save a bit of cash first and go for 421's.

 

[davo172]

oh no...peer pressure...must resist...must resist:innocent:

Ya know you want too !

 

[adir]

Seriously thx for helping...
Is there any thing worth with the 197 engine that can be good project for the 172 engine?
I'll just have the time and passion for doing something interesting with it, so I don't mind to give it a try

 

[bozothenutter]

Erm git the crank,conrods, pistons and head to the 172 engine?
Will need a standalone ecu though.
@NorthloopCup

 

[Dan@SJM]

Doesn't need standalone.

 

[adir]

Can you please explain more please?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Erm git the crank,conrods, pistons and head to the 172 engine?
Will need a standalone ecu though.
@NorthloopCup

Sorry mate notifications aren't working for some reason so only just seen this.
As dan has said, you don't need a standalone ecu to run with these additions as you can map the standard ecu. Your just restricted if you do opt to retain the oe ecu in some areas.

@adir what bozo is meaning is to fit the 197 internals and cylinder head on to the 172/182 block. It's a straight swap other than a small amount of modification to the 197 head so it can run the 172/182 cambelt setup. Proof can be found here along with some pics:
http://www.cliosport.net/threads/breaking-cover.772072/

 

[bozothenutter]

Sorry mate notifications aren't working for some reason so only just seen this.
As dan has said, you don't need a standalone ecu to run with these additions as you can map the standard ecu. Your just restricted if you do opt to retain the oe ecu in some areas.

@adir what bozo is meaning is to fit the 197 internals and cylinder head on to the 172/182 block. It's a straight swap other than a small amount of modification to the 197 head so it can run the 172/182 cambelt setup. Proof can be found here along with some pics:
http://www.cliosport.net/threads/breaking-cover.772072/

ah ok...good to know...but no adjustability in the cams beyond what the standerd engine has right? (which is basically one of the better features)

 

[NorthloopCup]

ah ok...good to know...but no adjustability in the cams beyond what the standerd engine has right? (which is basically one of the better features)

Well if you run the 197 dephaser you'll get the same advance on the inlet cam that a 197 receives. What you won't get is the constantly variable inlet timing as the standard Sirius 32/34 has no ability to run it (or at least not to my knowledge anyway)

 

[Dan@SJM]

Correct. The Sirius 32/34 has no input for CAS to be able to know how much advance its just dialed in.

 

[adir]

Sorry for the delay, just got the notification.
@NorthloopCup, that's exactly the answer I was looking for
Btw, you're engine looks f##### crazy..!
I'll go on that thread to see what you did there.
P.s
You mentioned that other than swap away the 197 in the 172 block, there's few things to do.
Can you light up this issue's?
Best regards.
Adir

 

[NorthloopCup]

Sorry for the delay, just got the notification.
@NorthloopCup, that's exactly the answer I was looking for :smile:
Btw, you're engine looks f##### crazy..!
I'll go on that thread to see what you did there.
P.s
You mentioned that other than swap away the 197 in the 172 block, there's few things to do.
Can you light up this issue's?
Best regards.
Adir

You need to mark up and drill and tap the 197 head to accept the cambelt tensioner roller that's on the 172. I don't have any pictures unfortunately of a 197 head and a 172 head for comparison, but here's a shot of a 172 head. Basically, where the black roller sits under the dephaser pulley isn't there on a 197 head. You need to add this drilling.
Not the best of pictures, but the cam on the right is the inlet cam. Below that is the drilling you need to add.

 

[adir]

ive just over your build threasr..
13 pages of pure p**n !
very Inspire..!
did you get it on dyno or not yet ?

 

[NorthloopCup]

ive just over your build threasr..
13 pages of pure p**n !
very Inspire..!
did you get it on dyno or not yet ?

Nah. Lost interest with it mate so it's still sat there needing a wiring loom.

 

[adir]

You kidding right?
How you can lost interest with it, don't you curious to know how it goes?
Btw
I thinking about installing only the 197 piston with the 172 head, to increase the ratio abit, maybe get some more torque in low end will be nice.
Is it possible to do just that?

 

[NorthloopCup]

You kidding right?
How you can lost interest with it, don't you curious to know how it goes?
Btw
I thinking about installing only the 197 piston with the 172 head, to increase the ratio abit, maybe get some more torque in low end will be nice.
Is it possible to do just that?

No not kidding mate. It's quite easy to lose interest in these things when you've been messing with cars for as many years as I have. Yeah I'm curious to see how much power it will make, but that doesn't spark the interest back into life. It'll be finished, or split and sold off.

Yeah you can fit the 197 pistons and retain the 172 head but you'll have to check the valve clearances to make sure they're not going to touch. I don't think it's worth it if your retaining the oe cams personally as your net gains will be marginal. You'll need it remapping as well.

 

[adir]

thx for the info m8.. thats help alot
i'll hope you get in to it soon, the project look's amazing.. !

 

[volymmannen]

Skickat från min SM-G930F via Tapatalk

 

[Mr Plums]

Wtf?

 

[bozothenutter]

to avoid drilling you could use something like the Pure aux belt setup.....

 

[Dan@SJM]

No you couldn't.

 

[bozothenutter]

No you couldn't.

right, i'll get my coat.....

assumptions etc...I stand corrected