ClioSport.net
Register a free account today to become a member!
Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. Read more here.
Ibis A3 BE
No real verdit as of yet as they want to test it on UK roads with a Trophy alongside to compare to.
They say question marks remain over the electric power-steering system and its ability to control its wheels and extra body weight on the UK's uniquely craggy roads.
But apart from that they seem quietly impressed I think, but not blown away. However it could all be carefully written to make sure they don't jump to any verdict before testing one properly.
They say question marks remain over the electric power-steering system and its ability to control its wheels and extra body weight on the UK's uniquely craggy roads.
But apart from that they seem quietly impressed I think, but not blown away. However it could all be carefully written to make sure they don't jump to any verdict before testing one properly.
Ibis A3 BE
Focus RS - they reckon that Ford pumped out some type of modifications to the press cars, and therefore Evo thought it wasn't too great for a number of reasons. But then not so long ago they tested another RS and were absolutely amazed at the difference in quality. Actually updated their 'star rating' for it as well.
Rich
Rich
I found this post from a guy called mattbvw on www.renaultsport.co.uk, thanks mate:
The article in EVO ( 093 - July 2006) was done in France, back to back with a 182 (with Cup pack) and Jean Ragnotti (the ex Renault racing driver). Jethro Bovingdon was the journalist. The article was a ‘behind the scenes’ preview ahead of the official launch in Portugal last week. EVO also spoke to some of the engineers from Renaultsport who developed the 197.
They said they’d like to do a back to back comparison with a Trophy on UK roads but did concede that the Trophy was “perhaps a benchmark too far” as it was “arguably the most focused, uncompromising Clio ever – even the V6 couldn’t boast of bespoke remote-reservoir dampers.”
Here are a few quotes from the article:
“The 197 must appeal to a broader audience, and although we can look forward to a lower, more aggressive ‘Cup’ chassis and even a stripped-out lightweight model in the future, at launch the new car will be a hot hatch for everyman, more refined, but still with driving thrills at the top of it’s agenda.”
“There’s no doubt in my mind that the Renaultsport Clio is the definitive hot hatch, and that – even in a year that sees newcomers like the M coupe, 997 GT3, Ferrari 599 GTB and Murcielago LP640 – the Clio 197 is the most important car of 2006.”
“The 197 is bursting at the seams with cold, hard engineering solutions to make it faster, sharper and more responsive. Renaultsport’s obsessive attention to detail is breathtaking. You expect bespoke cast-aluminium suspension arms and complex aerodynamic aids on something like a GT3 or a product from BMW’s M Division, but in a £15,995 hatchback? Prepare to have your preconceptions shot to pieces…”
“Into the new 197 (from the 182), which looks fabulously squat and broad-shouldered. It’s clearly a much bigger car – the glass area seems huge and you sit higher than in the 182 – and quality has taken a giant stride, too.”
“First impression, I’m relieved to say, is that the 197 feels very closely related to the 182. The ride is less agitated, but is by no means unrecognisably smooth or soft. The engine is much smoother and less vocal than the old car’s, with a more conventional howl when it’s really working. It’s only when Ragnotti closes in on the 7500rpm limiter that the familiar hyperactive fizz oscillates through the cabin.”
“Braking power is much improved, the big four-pot Brembos really cutting hard into the front discs. But whereas the old Clio always jinked and weaved under braking, the new car stays rock solid, and there’s much less dive.”
“(Powertrain Manager) Francois Gauchet explains: ‘We have tried to build-in more adjustability. On dry roads the car doesn’t really make big slides, but it is more responsive to the throttle. It helps with agility. And in the wet you can really get the rear moving out if you want’”
“Perhaps the most impressive element of the 197’s design is its aero package (…) Calls from the marketing department for a big boot spoiler were resisted. (Aerodynamics engineer) Marc Grosdidier takes up the story: ‘We didn’t want more drag. The idea for a rear diffuser seemed like the right solution, and once we proved its efficiency in the wind tunnel, the marketing department had to concede that this was the way forward. Showy exhaust pipes were ruled out too, when it was found that the outer channels of the diffuser were the most effective and would be rendered useless by two protruding drainpipes. Again the marketing department bowed to engineering logic. Now that’s something you don’t hear very often…”
“There’s none of the old Clio’s habit of tipping into a corner on its outside font wheel, the rear getting light and nervous. Instead it just turns in flat, grips and then exits with no drama.”
“Perhaps the biggest difference with the old Cup is the almost effortless gait over nasty bumps and jagged tarmac. There’s less crash, less kickback through the steering, more control. Does that make the 197 less challenging, less exciting? Well we’ll have to see, but on damp tarmac the 197 gripped harder at the front than the Cup but was happy to slide its tail wide in response to a deliberate backing off of the throttle. This fluidity and playfulness should ensure the Clio remains as challenging and entertaining as ever.”
“Question marks remain over the 197’s electric power-steering system and its ability to control its wheels and extra body weight on the UK’s uniquely craggy roads, but after a day in its company I can’t wait to drive it in anger.”
The article in EVO ( 093 - July 2006) was done in France, back to back with a 182 (with Cup pack) and Jean Ragnotti (the ex Renault racing driver). Jethro Bovingdon was the journalist. The article was a ‘behind the scenes’ preview ahead of the official launch in Portugal last week. EVO also spoke to some of the engineers from Renaultsport who developed the 197.
They said they’d like to do a back to back comparison with a Trophy on UK roads but did concede that the Trophy was “perhaps a benchmark too far” as it was “arguably the most focused, uncompromising Clio ever – even the V6 couldn’t boast of bespoke remote-reservoir dampers.”
Here are a few quotes from the article:
“The 197 must appeal to a broader audience, and although we can look forward to a lower, more aggressive ‘Cup’ chassis and even a stripped-out lightweight model in the future, at launch the new car will be a hot hatch for everyman, more refined, but still with driving thrills at the top of it’s agenda.”
“There’s no doubt in my mind that the Renaultsport Clio is the definitive hot hatch, and that – even in a year that sees newcomers like the M coupe, 997 GT3, Ferrari 599 GTB and Murcielago LP640 – the Clio 197 is the most important car of 2006.”
“The 197 is bursting at the seams with cold, hard engineering solutions to make it faster, sharper and more responsive. Renaultsport’s obsessive attention to detail is breathtaking. You expect bespoke cast-aluminium suspension arms and complex aerodynamic aids on something like a GT3 or a product from BMW’s M Division, but in a £15,995 hatchback? Prepare to have your preconceptions shot to pieces…”
“Into the new 197 (from the 182), which looks fabulously squat and broad-shouldered. It’s clearly a much bigger car – the glass area seems huge and you sit higher than in the 182 – and quality has taken a giant stride, too.”
“First impression, I’m relieved to say, is that the 197 feels very closely related to the 182. The ride is less agitated, but is by no means unrecognisably smooth or soft. The engine is much smoother and less vocal than the old car’s, with a more conventional howl when it’s really working. It’s only when Ragnotti closes in on the 7500rpm limiter that the familiar hyperactive fizz oscillates through the cabin.”
“Braking power is much improved, the big four-pot Brembos really cutting hard into the front discs. But whereas the old Clio always jinked and weaved under braking, the new car stays rock solid, and there’s much less dive.”
“(Powertrain Manager) Francois Gauchet explains: ‘We have tried to build-in more adjustability. On dry roads the car doesn’t really make big slides, but it is more responsive to the throttle. It helps with agility. And in the wet you can really get the rear moving out if you want’”
“Perhaps the most impressive element of the 197’s design is its aero package (…) Calls from the marketing department for a big boot spoiler were resisted. (Aerodynamics engineer) Marc Grosdidier takes up the story: ‘We didn’t want more drag. The idea for a rear diffuser seemed like the right solution, and once we proved its efficiency in the wind tunnel, the marketing department had to concede that this was the way forward. Showy exhaust pipes were ruled out too, when it was found that the outer channels of the diffuser were the most effective and would be rendered useless by two protruding drainpipes. Again the marketing department bowed to engineering logic. Now that’s something you don’t hear very often…”
“There’s none of the old Clio’s habit of tipping into a corner on its outside font wheel, the rear getting light and nervous. Instead it just turns in flat, grips and then exits with no drama.”
“Perhaps the biggest difference with the old Cup is the almost effortless gait over nasty bumps and jagged tarmac. There’s less crash, less kickback through the steering, more control. Does that make the 197 less challenging, less exciting? Well we’ll have to see, but on damp tarmac the 197 gripped harder at the front than the Cup but was happy to slide its tail wide in response to a deliberate backing off of the throttle. This fluidity and playfulness should ensure the Clio remains as challenging and entertaining as ever.”
“Question marks remain over the 197’s electric power-steering system and its ability to control its wheels and extra body weight on the UK’s uniquely craggy roads, but after a day in its company I can’t wait to drive it in anger.”
And his (mattbvw) personal view is quite interesting too:
I'm sure lots of us have been waiting eagerly for the first reviews of the 197. Although this is not a full on UK road test it looks very promising indeed. I was pleased (and indeed surprised) to see the attention to detail the Renaultsport engineers have gone to with this car - any quandries about it not having stanard xenons or auto wipers or alcantara should go out of the window if you appreciate the extent of what they have done to this car.
Yes, it's more expensive than the 182, it's bigger than the 182, it's heavier than the 182, it doesn't have all the features of a 182 but that was always going to be the case. That pretty much always happens with subsequent generations of the same model - cars get bigger and heavier because consumers demand more space, refinement and safety; run out models are usually loaded with extra equipment to make them more attractive and this is easier for manufacturers to do when the development costs have been written off (i.e. late in the life cycle). What the 197 does have is engineering excellence from determined people at Renaultsport who have provided us with some of the best handling small cars ever built and have strong links to the current F1 champions. Increased power, quality, safety and refinement over the previous generation and by the sound of this first review (from arguably the best car magazine on the planet) the handling and driving enjoyment seem to be there too. In my opinion, things are looking good for the next generation of fast Clios and this is only the start - as mentioned in the article we still have other versions and upgrades (like the Recaros seen elsewhere on the forum) to look forward too.
I'm sure lots of us have been waiting eagerly for the first reviews of the 197. Although this is not a full on UK road test it looks very promising indeed. I was pleased (and indeed surprised) to see the attention to detail the Renaultsport engineers have gone to with this car - any quandries about it not having stanard xenons or auto wipers or alcantara should go out of the window if you appreciate the extent of what they have done to this car.
Yes, it's more expensive than the 182, it's bigger than the 182, it's heavier than the 182, it doesn't have all the features of a 182 but that was always going to be the case. That pretty much always happens with subsequent generations of the same model - cars get bigger and heavier because consumers demand more space, refinement and safety; run out models are usually loaded with extra equipment to make them more attractive and this is easier for manufacturers to do when the development costs have been written off (i.e. late in the life cycle). What the 197 does have is engineering excellence from determined people at Renaultsport who have provided us with some of the best handling small cars ever built and have strong links to the current F1 champions. Increased power, quality, safety and refinement over the previous generation and by the sound of this first review (from arguably the best car magazine on the planet) the handling and driving enjoyment seem to be there too. In my opinion, things are looking good for the next generation of fast Clios and this is only the start - as mentioned in the article we still have other versions and upgrades (like the Recaros seen elsewhere on the forum) to look forward too.
Integra Type R & 205 Mi16
When the Mk1 172 came out many moons ago it didn't immediately become become a 5 star car. From what i remember it only got 5-stars when the mk2 came out, it could be a similar story with the 197.
Renault Clio 172 Ph2
hope its not to long till a cup comes out though!
Renault Clio 172 Ph2
Josh27 said:
josh the 182 was 15.5k new start price. discount centres mean haggling at dealers. so 12.5k after few months should be attainable. w/o options obviosuly. but still approx same price as a 182.
Trophy
yep i remember having a good laugh at the RS focus review...especially the "comedy torque steer" quote...although they take it all back now..
Nissan 350Z
meggerman said:
Its true... i've drove a mk3 DCI and it feels like your sitting in a people carrier.
When I got back into the 182 it felt like a sports coupe!
Also the steering thing is worrying - the DCI I drove had truly horrid artificial feeling steering. It felt like a playstation steering wheel.
I am really honestly waiting to see how the PAS weighs up. Electric is traditionally totally devoid of any feedback. I would hope that RS know better, but I suspect they may have just done the best with what they have at this stage. I think people are being foolish to asume the car will be superb to drive on the road.
MarkCup
ClioSport Club Member
Bearing in mind the fact that they retained hydraulic only on the 172/182 range, and the level of (apparent) detailed developments coming on the 197, I'm sure they'd not stuff it up with crap steering.
Can electric feel as good as hydraulic? Maybe Renault have cracked it?
I can't wait for August 21 when I can try it out myself
Can electric feel as good as hydraulic? Maybe Renault have cracked it?
I can't wait for August 21 when I can try it out myself
electric steering can work, but its hard to get it right.....................honda have never got it right although they came close with the NSX
will retain my opinion till I have driven one but so wont be buying one till a different version comes out lol
will retain my opinion till I have driven one but so wont be buying one till a different version comes out lol
BMW 535D
think i'll have to be having a test drive of that like! much prefer the looks of the 182 though! i've got a feeling that some of us 182 drives may be a little disappointed with the bigger, new car! 4-pot brakes tho
C
Cupster
Not convinced, cup stays.
