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197 oversteer



  MKIII 138
sorry if this is a repost


Anyone for a four wheel drift?
August 15th, 2006
I spent a lot of time last week driving Renault Clio 182 with Cup suspension settings and Trophy models with the fabulous Sachs dampers. mainly the superb roads between Lincoln and Peterborough as well as the winding A30 between Yeovil and Salisbury - all 35 miles of it. Very predictable cars too they are, with pretty much the characteristics you would expect of a performance front wheel drive car. That is, more of an inclination to under-steer if you power into a corner, feathering the throttle while you negotiate the bend. It’s second nature to most people as most have latterly learned to drive in front wheel drive cars and gain further experience in all conditions of the consequences of a bit too much gas, or lifting off mid corner if you’re travelling too fast.

Watching for braking points, turning in late, clipping the apex and powering out of a corner is for the professionals? Well, you would think so, but having read earlier that the new Renaultsport Clio 197 is prone to over-steer leads me to the assumption that there will be a lot of damaged ones in the future (note what I mentioned in a previous post about damage under the boot carpet). Unless you really know what you are doing, and have maybe done some skid control training, the way that I am aware you contend with an over-steer situation is to maintain or dial in more throttle and turn into the skid (opposite lock). Easy in a rear wheel drive car, many of us in our youth have ’practiced’ being Jim Clark - famous Lotus Cortina picture - so you’re programmed to react in that way. Putting it simply, in my opinion, sliding a rear wheel drive car in a four wheel drift is childs play compared to the occurrence in a front wheel drive car on wide 215 width tyres.

If you’ve ever seen one of these tyres off the car you appreciate just how wide they are. So, imagine the scene. You’re hurtling around a fast bend in your new £17500 (with options) Renaultsport Clio 197. You give it a little too much throttle. (In the 182 I’d say you would to a greater extent, go straight on, a tendency of understeer. It’s controllable.) Now try it in a car that snaps into oversteer. I reckon in the time available Mr or Mrs Average-Driver might think about going to opposite lock, but give it a boot full of throttle? Probably not. More likely lift off the gas , exasperating the pendulum effect of a front engined front wheel drive car. 5:1 you’ll be backwards into a field.

Seems to me, it’s sporting to give the trackday boys a car to go play drifting around Oulton Park in but a bit reckless to give Mr & Mrs Average-Driver the same kit to play on the A24 in. I won’t go into details as to what happened there to a friendly former customer of mine who found himself going sideways having induced snap oversteer except Oak Tree 1: Megane 2.016V Coupe: 0

I’m sure that there are plenty of the current crop of hot hatches that perform in the same way on their chunky fat tyres. I’m just not sure that it’s the safe way to be going. I suppose at least with 5 Star NCAP Safety it’s more likely that if you hit something you’ll be OK.

This is my weblog and therefore my own opinion. If you think I have the wrong end of the ‘oversteering in front wheel drive cars’ stick, drop me a line with your opinion. (With any experiences!)


e-mail steve.coulter@gmail.com
http://allvehicles.wordpress.com/2006/08/15/anyone-for-a-four-wheel-drift/

opinions peeps ?
 
firstly, its lift of oversteer. Proper oversteer is impossible in a front wheel drive car.

secondly, the rate at which the car slides in a 197 is very friendly and you shouldnt be driving a hot hatch if you cant slide this car, i remember someone telling me that.
 
Oversteer is oversteer surely? However it's provoked the end result is oversteer? Or are you meaning oversteer and drifting?

Either way, I'm not really sure what that writer is getting at really. He seems to be implying the 197 is dangerous.
 
Written in a more lucid moment having read a thread on Renaultsport where someone of some eminence had mentioned the 197 had a tendency to oversteer.

Ralph has hit the nail on the head, it's lift-off (or as I call it snap) oversteer with it coming as a surprise to anyone who has induced it who does not have the technique to get it back in the right direction.

I would stand by my point about rwd cars being easier to recover oversteer, but not implying that 197 are dangerous. Having said that, if you had seen the Megane Coupe 2.0 16v I mentioned, you would not wish to be going sideways into anything.

BTW whoever said you shouldn't buy a hot hatch unless you can slide it is talking rubbish. Most people would be totally out of control sliding (the rear) of a fwd car without training.
 
  BMW 328 Ci
Written in a more lucid moment having read a thread on Renaultsport where someone of some eminence had mentioned the 197 had a tendency to oversteer.

Ralph has hit the nail on the head, it's lift-off (or as I call it snap) oversteer with it coming as a surprise to anyone who has induced it who does not have the technique to get it back in the right direction.

I would stand by my point about rwd cars being easier to recover oversteer, but not implying that 197 are dangerous. Having said that, if you had seen the Megane Coupe 2.0 16v I mentioned, you would not wish to be going sideways into anything.

BTW whoever said you shouldn't buy a hot hatch unless you can slide it is talking rubbish. Most people would be totally out of control sliding (the rear) of a fwd car without training.


Tell me if im wrong here, but as far as I was aware in a FWD to recover oversteer the genral idea is you nail the throttle and apply opposite lock, where as in a RWD you have to moddulate the throttle, not to much not to little, while not pressing the breaks, applying opposite lock and being carefull not overcorrect and induce a tankslapper?
 
  cock mobile.
Ralph has hit the nail on the head, it's lift-off (or as I call it snap) oversteer with it coming as a surprise to anyone who has induced it who does not have the technique to get it back in the right direction.

There's a big difference in the type of lift oversteer, snap means it gone, by by hit hedge, but not all FWD cars snap like that, some are very controlable.
 
My thoughts Mack, the problem being if you hadn't done it before you would probably apply the steering but not add the throttle. With no result. Is the difference between lift-off and snap just semantics? I think we (typical fwd hot hatchback owners) take years of experience for granted in driving fwd cars quickly.
 
  Turbos.
The guy sounds like a pussy.

Front engined RWDs are typically easy to play with, but the initial correction is child's play, the problems occur when you overcorrect and start fishtailing. Not a problem in a FWD...

FWDs allow you to get away with so much, i can't see how he can say RWD is an easier car to drive fast in.
 
BTW whoever said you shouldn't buy a hot hatch unless you can slide it is talking rubbish. Most people would be totally out of control sliding (the rear) of a fwd car without training.

Surely it depends how much it is sliding? most people can control a minor slide.

I see your point though
 


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