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197 versus Cooper S



  S-Max
Read with interest the Sept edition of "What Car" and they put a Seat, Polo GTI, Cooper S and the 197 up against each other.

The Cooper and 197 scored 4 out of 5, the Seat 3 and the Polo 2.

Cooper won it though due to the lack of pull in the 197 at low revs. Decent write up though. Noticed top end the 197 was slowest of the lot at 128mph. Engine size of other were 1.6 or 1.8 compared with 197's 2.0 litre, though others were turbo's.

Worth a read.
 

DrR

ClioSport Club Member
  VW Golf GTD
Yeah read my mates copy of that, he's decided to get a cooper s, oh he will be disapointed when i blow him away when i get my 182 :) cooper s is superchargered?
 
  Turbos.
DrRollo said:
Yeah read my mates copy of that, he's decided to get a cooper s, oh he will be disapointed when i blow him away when i get my 182 :) cooper s is superchargered?
Although if he spent a couple of hundred quid on a pulley upgrade and chip he would kick your ass...
 
  MINI JCW
cliobuyer said:
Although if he spent a couple of hundred quid on a pulley upgrade and chip he would kick your ass...
it cost a fair amount to get the Cooper S up to 200+ bhp, i know the works kits are very expensive but even the unofficial conversion from hartge is £1700

Spend £1700 on the 182 and you will have close to 200bhp, £1700 (such as hartge conversion) on the MINI you will have 210bhp and my money would still be on the 182 as its power to weight ratio is higher.

obviously though when modifying the gains per £ are much higher on the MCS
 
  car? need a license 1st!
yeah the old cooper s is supercharged.

The new one (released later this year? or next year?) will be turbo instead. For better power delivery i believe
 
  Turbos.
gazcaddy said:
it cost a fair amount to get the Cooper S up to 200+ bhp
A 15% pulley can give upto 20bhp ATW, and they cost £120!

Upping the boost isn't neccessarily a clever idea but you don't need to spend thousands on getting the Mini's up to near 200bhp figures.

People rant on about Mini's being expensive but if you do plan to tune your car Mini's can work out cheaper overall.
 

DrR

ClioSport Club Member
  VW Golf GTD
I've got nothing against mini's but they are REALLY small inside and they cost about 4K more for same age/millage clio
 
  MINI JCW
cliobuyer said:
A 15% pulley can give upto 20bhp ATW, and they cost £120!

Upping the boost isn't neccessarily a clever idea but you don't need to spend thousands on getting the Mini's up to near 200bhp figures.

People rant on about Mini's being expensive but if you do plan to tune your car Mini's can work out cheaper overall.
What the point of the JCW kits then? if 200bhp can be had for a few hundred quid
 
  Turbos.
Well, if you spend towards £20k on a Mini then i guess you want to feel reassured having the warranty, especially as you get 5 years free servicing which would be voided too...
 
  BMW 330d :)
Ive had a shot against a cooper s works up to 60 and it was neck and neck, with alot of wheelspin from my car. Above that though he would have had me. They are 200+kg heavier than my car though, which kills the extra power.
 
gazcaddy said:
What the point of the JCW kits then? if 200bhp can be had for a few hundred quid
What's the point of fitting PPP to an impreza when you could spend £500 on a remap for the same gains?

It's all about the warranty :) (I think you stil get to keep the warranty with the JCW kits anyway).
 
  MINI JCW
Evoo said:
What's the point of fitting PPP to an impreza when you could spend £500 on a remap for the same gains?

It's all about the warranty :) (I think you stil get to keep the warranty with the JCW kits anyway).
I understand the warranty bit, but you dont get to keep the warranty with other MINI conversion such as Schnitzer, hartge etc and they cost £1700

Why would anyone buy these conversion (i.e not JCW if it invalidates their warranty) if the same power can be acheived from a few hundred quid?
 
gazcaddy said:
I understand the warranty bit, but you dont get to keep the warranty with other MINI conversion such as Schnitzer, hartge etc and they cost £1700

Why would anyone buy these conversion (i.e not JCW if it invalidates their warranty) if the same power can be acheived from a few hundred quid?
HArtge, Schnitzer etc for cars out of warranty, or if you don't care and want to just save cash.

JCW if you still want to keep it :)
 
  Nissan 350Z
I know top end doesnt matter that much, but am I the only one who thinks 128 mph is pathetic from a car with supposedly nearly 200 brake?!

A Fabia vRS can do that, and that only has 128 bhp, and weighs and extra 75 kg over a 197!!!
 
R

rich[182]

pbirkett said:
I know top end doesnt matter that much, but am I the only one who thinks 128 mph is pathetic from a car with supposedly nearly 200 brake?!

A Fabia vRS can do that, and that only has 128 bhp, and weighs and extra 75 kg over a 197!!!
Playing devils advocate here, but you could argue anything over 100mph is totally irrelevant off track as its an instant driving ban anyway, A 1.2 Micra would beat me on the motorway ;)
 
  Turbos.
Evoo said:
HArtge, Schnitzer etc for cars out of warranty, or if you don't care and want to just save cash.

JCW if you still want to keep it :)
Some official BMW dealerships supply Hartge and Schnitzer parts which are covered under warranty. The major tuning firms normally offer their own warranty on engine parts as well.
 
pbirkett said:
I know top end doesnt matter that much, but am I the only one who thinks 128 mph is pathetic from a car with supposedly nearly 200 brake?!

A Fabia vRS can do that, and that only has 128 bhp, and weighs and extra 75 kg over a 197!!!

No you're not the only one. It is pathetic when you consider a CTR is same weight and power (give or take) and manages not only 147mph, but also gets there a damn sight faster?

Anyone who knows about gearing should know that it doesnt quite add up. Surely?
 
are we sure this isn't a mistake/misprint? what are the official figures? 128 mph does seem a bit pants and im not jumping on the '197 is crap' bandwagon. i quite like the car. would be a shame if the performance isn't similar to its competitors'
 
  VaVa
Roy Munson said:
No you're not the only one. It is pathetic when you consider a CTR is same weight and power (give or take) and manages not only 147mph, but also gets there a damn sight faster?

Anyone who knows about gearing should know that it doesnt quite add up. Surely?
If these things are 200PS I think it's impressive that they've actually managed to make them so f**king slow. gearing a car to be slow through gears and have a piddly top end is no mean feat!! lol
 
Schnitzer, Alpina and JCW parts were the only ones available through the BMW dealer network when i worked there (2years ago) and even then only some of the range that the two companies supplied. All of the parts supplied through the dealers was covered by BMW warranty though.
 
  S-Max
A cup would beat a cooper s, not sure why you struggled against it - what were you carrying?

Ive had 2 gos and won both. Stats also back it up, cant remeber off hand figures but remember thinking they were close but 0-60 and top end were in favour of cup.
 
  S-Max
That above was for Frazerscup, sorry...

Gazcaddy performance test results :-

0-60 Cooper is 7.8, 197 came in at 7.5 (see what I mean Frazer - cup comes in around 6.5)

30-70 through the gears cooper does it in 6.5 secs, 197 takes 7.3 secs which is the main reason why they put the Cooper S as their best "tiny tearaway". The 197 has quite a bit mid-high revs but it takes its time getting there.
 
My general thoughts, not really based on info in this thread, is that the 197 has 197ps as a headline garbbing figure, whilst the overall gearing (including final drive) has been tweaked to keep the car 'slow' and a fair chunk behind the 225 Meg.

I think that Cup versions will have better gearing to unleash the potential. It's still a superb car but it really is annoying to think that the speed has been engineered out, rather than in.
 
  Nissan 350Z
Thing is, isnt it blessed with a close, relatively short ratio gearbox? That would kind of dismiss that argument if so, but would make it all the more puzzling too.
 
  '07 Impreza, 182 sold now
gazcaddy said:
it cost a fair amount to get the Cooper S up to 200+ bhp, i know the works kits are very expensive but even the unofficial conversion from hartge is £1700

Spend £1700 on the 182 and you will have close to 200bhp, £1700 (such as hartge conversion) on the MINI you will have 210bhp and my money would still be on the 182 as its power to weight ratio is higher.

obviously though when modifying the gains per £ are much higher on the MCS

£650 for pulley and re-map @ Lohen, there's 210bhp easy
but MINIs are girls cars :clown:
 
pbirkett said:
Thing is, isnt it blessed with a close, relatively short ratio gearbox? That would kind of dismiss that argument if so, but would make it all the more puzzling too.
No it would not dismiss anything. If it had such short overall gearing then it should nail the ton quicker. It does indeed appear to have pretty short gearing but the 0-100 does not reflect it. That's the whole point. It doesnt work out IMO.

Do we know of anyone who's put a 197 on the rollers yet? That will be very interesting.
 
Roy Munson said:
No it would not dismiss anything. If it had such short overall gearing then it should nail the ton quicker. It does indeed appear to have pretty short gearing but the 0-100 does not reflect it. That's the whole point. It doesnt work out IMO.

Do we know of anyone who's put a 197 on the rollers yet? That will be very interesting.
I agree 197 bhp and the weight with close gearing it should be in the 16's to the ton!!!!

and I'm test driving it tomorrow, so will report back lol, soooooo want it to be good and sooooo know it wont be as good as i hope although the road i recce'd for the test drive is awesome so if it dont shine on that it never will
 


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