197 vs 182?

[JasonB]

I have a Glacier White 197 at the mo, I love it to bits its a great car. However I'm wanting a full all-out trackday car, i can't afford to destroy my 197 and then afford to run another car on top. So my idea is to sell my 197, buy a 182, and then another rubbish car as a runaround. (Damn those pictures in the banner making me fall in love with the 182. )

Just asking the question really, what would you do? Drive a 197 everyday, or have a 182 as a track car and a boring daily.

Also, for those "in the know" how much would i be looking at to change a 182 into a track car? I'm wanting a ball-park figure, I'm not going to do it on the cheap, but I'm not really going to put an earth load of cash into it either.

Cheers.

 

[Gaz_]

You may miss the refinement of the 197 day to day i know i do!

 

[Steve]

Just get PF pads, Hankook RS2's & take brave pills
Very good, well balanced car so stick with it.
Going back to a 182 you would loathe the brakes, g/box etc etc.

 

[alanc1000]

keep the 197.

Unless you drive around a track on a regular basis, you are sacrificing an AMAZING car for the sake of a few laps here and there.

 

[JasonB]

Cheers for the comments.

keep the 197.

Unless you drive around a track on a regular basis, you are sacrificing an AMAZING car for the sake of a few laps here and there.

If i did get a 182 it'd be on track pretty much every month once its stripped. I used to race Karts (KF3 for those that care, ) and I just want the track bug back.

I've thought on and off about stripping my 197 but I know I'll just regret it when it comes to selling up. I've had my 197 out on track, and its good, but as its my daily commute I kinda' don't want to push to hard.

 

[JasonB]

I've listed my car up on pistonheads. Have to see what bites. Would love a 182 as a project car though.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1762539.htm

 

[Šįk]

Y not get a decent 172cup..? More money in the pocket for mods or whatever n it's ideal for a track car, you'll already have a head start as it's alot lighter than 172/182's standard!

PSJ.

 

[ForceIndia]

Get rid of the 197, you just can't beat physics and it weighs too f**king much! Get a cheap ph1. Chuck some great suspension at it, pads discs and lines. Don't strip the f**k out of it, it'll be unbearable.
I'll pm you what I did to mine. Absolutely perfect balance. Not too harsh for road, great on track. I waved at a 200cup as I went past him at Bedford. And again 4 laps later .
Regardless of what anyone says, a 197/200 will 100% be a fair bit pricier to run on track. It's a heavier car, which will cane the tyres/brakes/petrol/parts, all of which are a lot pricier for the newer car.
I run a new 200, it's a great car. But it's not as interactive or as fun as the older cars, it's a lot easier and less challenging (therefore fun) to drive than the older car.

 

[.Kev.]

keep the 197.

Unless you drive around a track on a regular basis, you are sacrificing an AMAZING car for the sake of a few laps here and there.

The 197 is hardly amazing, over weight and under powered. Get shot of it.

 

[BR33NY]

if ur worried bout the weight of a 197 then get the 197cup its much lighter than any previous clio and trust me its a flying machine

 

[Gaz_]

Er, its a fantastic motor! Depends what you want, imo the MK3 does the day to day bits LOADS better than a MK2. MK2 might be more responsive on track, but is more compromised day to day

 

[alanc1000]

The 197 is hardly amazing, over weight and under powered. Get shot of it.

It will outbrake a 182 around the track anyday, and a cup packed 197 will keep up with a 182 no problems at all.

 

[Gaz_]

if ur worried bout the weight of a 197 then get the 197cup its much lighter than any previous clio and trust me its a flying machine

PMSL! 20kgs at best (and thats debatable if it was specced with ac or not!)

 

[BR33NY]

mines is not speeced with air con its as light as it possibly can be lest be honest they are both lovely very fast little cars they both have there good points and there bad points but all round they are a shed load of fun

 

[.Kev.]

197 Weighs 1240kg
197 Cup 1220 kg
182 1080 kg

 

[JasonB]

if ur worried bout the weight of a 197 then get the 197cup its much lighter than any previous clio and trust me its a flying machine

I have a CUP already dude, its an awesome car. But I don't want to strip it, and turning it into a pure track car would be a waste of money.

Er, its a fantastic motor! Depends what you want, imo the MK3 does the day to day bits LOADS better than a MK2. MK2 might be more responsive on track, but is more compromised day to day

If i had a 182 it wouldn't be a daily driver, it'd just sit in the garage and I'd use something else to driver around in. The 182 would be just a project car, nothing else.

 

[.Kev.]

It will outbrake a 182 around the track anyday, and a cup packed 197 will keep up with a 182 no problems at all.

Ive played with both on the track, and drove both. Had no probs pulling away from it.

 

[Gaz_]

197 Weighs 1240kg
197 Cup 1220 kg
182 1080 kg

I prefer this tbh

172 Cup 1021 kg

 

[.Kev.]

I prefer this tbh

172 Cup 1021 kg

Love it!!

 

[Martin_172]

personally if i was you i would do what i do.

Ph1 172 for weekend fun, and track days (£2500 for a minter!)
DCi 100 for daily (£3500 for a minter) 65mpg, £35 a year road tax and cheap insurance every day

my dci costs me less than £400 a year (MOT, TAX, Service, Insurance) + fuel

 

[ForceIndia]

It will outbrake a 182 around the track anyday, and a cup packed 197 will keep up with a 182 no problems at all.

Not the point in all honesty. Standard for standard the 182 may be slightly quicker. But it's miles more fun. And miles more interactive. And cheaper to boot. The mk3's are too heavy, end of discussion!
Yes the mk3's are better at the day to day, but listening to you guys would make you think a 182 will kill you if used as a day to day car. I've covered over 150k between all the 1*2's, they were great. Anyone would think you were talking about a 205 ffs.

 

[ForceIndia]

if ur worried bout the weight of a 197 then get the 197cup its much lighter than any previous clio and trust me its a flying machine

Christ on a bike. I hope you don't breed .
The 197cup is still a lot heavier than a 172.

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

Ditch the 197, get a 182, or better yet, save more $$ and get a ph1 172.

That will be miles more 'raw' and fun on track than the fat heffer that is the 197.

 

[The Chubby Pirate]

The 197 Cup weighs 1220kg's

Thats only 140kg's/22 stone more that a 182.

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

Take that weight out of the 197, it will feel totally different! Thats a lot of weight!

 

[alanc1000]

Ive played with both on the track, and drove both. Had no probs pulling away from it.

I believe you, i've seen it for myself, which is why i am talking about outbraking, the brakes on a 182 are poop. The ability to outbrake is what makes them more matched.

 

[.Kev.]

Is it possible to get 140kg out of a 197? Either way its still as big as a Ford Focus.

 

[The Chubby Pirate]

Is it possible to get 140kg out of a 197? Either way its still as big as a Ford Focus.

If theres weight of that in the body panels and shell (which i suspect there is) then it would be pointless.

Buying a cheap phase 1 which you dont have to worry about is the far better option, just as capable on a track id have thought.

 

[Hugo-]

Not the point in all honesty. Standard for standard the 182 may be slightly quicker. But it's miles more fun. And miles more interactive. And cheaper to boot. The mk3's are too heavy, end of discussion!
Yes the mk3's are better at the day to day, but listening to you guys would make you think a 182 will kill you if used as a day to day car. I've covered over 150k between all the 1*2's, they were great. Anyone would think you were talking about a 205 ffs.

Agree with that. I use mine to cover at the minimum 350 miles a week and the only gripe I could have is the lack of cruise control. Although I do have recaro's.

 

[ForceIndia]

I believe you, i've seen it for myself, which is why i am talking about outbraking, the brakes on a 182 are poop. The ability to outbrake is what makes them more matched.

You're nuts, honestly. The brakes are not 'poop'. They fade with track use (any roads car will). But they are not 'poop'.
Did you do track days in your clios?

 

[alanc1000]

Not the point in all honesty. Standard for standard the 182 may be slightly quicker. But it's miles more fun. And miles more interactive. And cheaper to boot. The mk3's are too heavy, end of discussion!
Yes the mk3's are better at the day to day, but listening to you guys would make you think a 182 will kill you if used as a day to day car. I've covered over 150k between all the 1*2's, they were great. Anyone would think you were talking about a 205 ffs.

But you are the one making the point about weight? If you are saying a heavier car is no good around the track because it weighs more, thats a moot point as for example a 911 turbo is 250kg more than a 197.

More fun and raw - yes, interactive, more than the 197 but thats not to say the 197 isnt interactive, cheaper on parts - not in my experience.

EDIT - brakes on a 182 compared to a 197 are poop, not even worth debating. Not s**t overall, but if you are comparing, then yes they are.

 

[ForceIndia]

But you are the one making the point about weight? If you are saying a heavier car is no good around the track because it weighs more, thats a moot point as for example a 911 turbo is 250kg more than a 197.

More fun and raw - yes, interactive, more than the 197 but thats not to say the 197 isnt interactive, cheaper on parts - not in my experience.

EDIT - brakes on a 182 compared to a 197 are poop, not even worth debating. Not s**t overall, but if you are comparing, then yes they are.

God, here we go. A 911 turbo is not a great track car, if it were the gt3 wouldn't exist.
Did you track your Clio?

 

[The Chubby Pirate]

But you are the one making the point about weight? If you are saying a heavier car is no good around the track because it weighs more, thats a moot point as for example a 911 turbo is 250kg more than a 197.

More fun and raw - yes, interactive, more than the 197 but thats not to say the 197 isnt interactive, cheaper on parts - not in my experience.

EDIT - brakes on a 182 compared to a 197 are poop, not even worth debating. Not s**t overall, but if you are comparing, then yes they are.

Yes but the power hike in the 197 over a 182 isnt beneficial, 25bhp to 140kg's isnt the same as a 911 having over 400bhp though is it....?

 

[ForceIndia]

Yes but the power hike in the 197 over a 182 isnt beneficial, 25bhp to 140kg's isnt the same as a 911 having over 400bhp though is it....?

Forgetting that
A) he's comparing a fwd hot hatch to a powerful rwd car
B) you can't have big power without big weight with crazy expense due to use of exotic materials.

 

[The Chubby Pirate]

And that aswell

 

[alanc1000]

God, here we go. A 911 turbo is not a great track car, if it were the gt3 wouldn't exist.
Did you track your Clio?

yes.

Did you track your 197? You HAVE owned a 197 to base your judgements havent you?!?

 

[Jimbo-Clio]

Ph1 172 and a mark 1 focus tdi or a skoda tdi would be my guess no point in buying a 182 if your going to rip it apart anyway mayswell buy a cheaper model like a ph1 or a cup and rip tht apart with more money for parts.

My phase 1 is alot more fun than the alfa nothing trying to control the car of restrict power sounds alot better aswell

 

[.Kev.]

But you are the one making the point about weight? If you are saying a heavier car is no good around the track because it weighs more, thats a moot point as for example a 911 turbo is 250kg more than a 197.

More fun and raw - yes, interactive, more than the 197 but thats not to say the 197 isnt interactive, cheaper on parts - not in my experience.

EDIT - brakes on a 182 compared to a 197 are poop, not even worth debating. Not s**t overall, but if you are comparing, then yes they are.

Whats a 911 turbo got to do with all this?

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

I think he tried to compare a 197 and a 911 turbo. Words fail me.

 

[ForceIndia]

yes.

Did you track your 197? You HAVE owned a 197 to base your judgements havent you?!?

No. Poor to drive, ergo I waited for the ugly update. I have driven them on track, plenty of times in the 1*2's.

the 197 will cost a lot more to run on track. Whilst being no quicker. And less fun. I can't think of why anyone would pick a heavier, slower car as the basis for a track car. End of the day you'd want to reduce the weight, negating the everyday usability!

I know you have a major hard-on over the 197, and can't seem able to see past it. But, to the op, I think it's fair so say that most of the track regulars are recommending the 1*2's. The biggest 197 advocate drives an auto Beemer. Make of that what you will .