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Ben,
I know what your saying about these TB's kits, From your position you are providing a service and a skill to modify cars to peoples requirements and if by using sub-standard components it compromises your work then its no good, lets face it if you carryout some work and a sub-standard component fails then in the eyes of your customer your at fault! This is not good for business or reputation. So it makes sense that a more expensive proven kit/setup is of greater value in the long run.
If I were to come to you and say, I want to improve the drivability of my car, by adding a bit more power and utilising the rev range more freely without spending a fortune what would your suggestions be in terms of modification and what gains / improvements would I see.
Also what are your thoughts on NOS?? I've heard lots of good and lots of bad things. But you cant dismiss its the best value power for your pound!!
Cheers
I know what your saying about these TB's kits, From your position you are providing a service and a skill to modify cars to peoples requirements and if by using sub-standard components it compromises your work then its no good, lets face it if you carryout some work and a sub-standard component fails then in the eyes of your customer your at fault! This is not good for business or reputation. So it makes sense that a more expensive proven kit/setup is of greater value in the long run.
If I were to come to you and say, I want to improve the drivability of my car, by adding a bit more power and utilising the rev range more freely without spending a fortune what would your suggestions be in terms of modification and what gains / improvements would I see.
Also what are your thoughts on NOS?? I've heard lots of good and lots of bad things. But you cant dismiss its the best value power for your pound!!
Cheers
I used to run N20 all day long, but i got bored of it pretty quick. Fun for short periods, but you really dont feel it like you think you would. And the costs keep adding up, i spent £180 in gas on the first day i installed it.
If you want, what is basically a beefier engine with the refinement of a std engine, then i would simply go for cams, inlet manifold and remap.....and any additional exhaust/intake which is your preference. That way there arent major labour prices as the head isnt comming off etc.
If you want, what is basically a beefier engine with the refinement of a std engine, then i would simply go for cams, inlet manifold and remap.....and any additional exhaust/intake which is your preference. That way there arent major labour prices as the head isnt comming off etc.
BenR said:
I was refering to the Jenvy & Omex kit on the Vaux and N/A cos. Exactly the same as the one used in Yozza's kit and im sure the same GDI has fitted to some cars.
The one fitted to the old BDA engine in my dads rally car where roller barrel boddies which are even better then the stuff we are tlaking about and this set-up wasnt 5k.
BenR said:either way, those are the prices your looking at nowadays.
And for arguements sake, i dont rate roller barrel, and neither does F1lol.
For info DT are selling the Vaux - Jenvey TB kits with OMEX ECU / fuel rail etc bolt on ready to go and Map for just over 2k (2.2k i think) with further 300 mapping (comes with base map) etc the 2.5k for up and running kit.
Inlet Manifold
Throttle bodies
Fuel Rail
Air horns x 4
Fuel Pressure Regulator
Injectors x 4
Throttle Position Sensor
Omex 600 ECU
Wiring Harness (see notes below)
Air Temperature Sensor
Fuel Pipe + Clips
All nuts, bolts, fasteners
Brake servo adapter
Programming kit
Comprehensive instructions
For the Renault kit im sure there are some bits and pieces to do but on the cup you have to get a new rad. QED use this set-up and get over 205bhp from a std engine.
http://www.omextechnology.co.uk/ThrottleBodies/TBEM/TBEM.htm
Checked on Jenvey's website and they are the same used on the 172 stuff.
Roller boddies i agree they ot junked along with the BDA engine - very expensive and not the most reliable...!
EVOgone said:
Also the taper TB kit for the XE engine from SBD is:-
TP208 kit with coil pack £1,670.71 inc their ECU.
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Main.htm
208bhp std engine and 800 fully fitted maps are supplied.
2.5k and up and running..!
BenR said:
Im sure you know better then me regard the DT stuff, that DT for you. Whats the additional stuff ? and how much would it cost.
The QED and the SBD (which are better) are for a full kit. Its just for information purposes showing the stuff thats needed and that the TB are equivalent to the one discussed for the clio.
I think you said in the earlier post that i wasnt comparing eggs with eggs but the kit is the same or equivalent...
SDB are a big company, they can buy in bulk and have their own ECU which they can produce at lower costs than we can buy ecu trade. They've been in the business for a long time so their prices are going to be 'cheap', but the XE has been around ages and competition is high, so prices are going to be competitively low.
Your earlier post i thought you were referring to the DCOE based kits for XE's and the likes which cost pennies....but for a reason.
Your earlier post i thought you were referring to the DCOE based kits for XE's and the likes which cost pennies....but for a reason.
MKIII 138
my point of view we need GDI, Angelworks etc.. to come up with specific packages to make it easier for the consumer i.e a stage1 = genuine 180 from a 172 for little outlay, bring your car leave it come back a volia`, stage 2 = 190hp same situation leave car etc..
stage3 gdi, aw kit = 200 hp, same situation again leave you car hand the cash over etc..
sure your still able to individually tune to peoples needs but were not all car mechanics, i think i know lots about tuning parts avaliable, their prices, and usual power gains and not just for clio`s either but at the end of the day id just rather hand over 2,000 and get my self a stage 2 or 3 form people i trust
just my opinion
stage3 gdi, aw kit = 200 hp, same situation again leave you car hand the cash over etc..
sure your still able to individually tune to peoples needs but were not all car mechanics, i think i know lots about tuning parts avaliable, their prices, and usual power gains and not just for clio`s either but at the end of the day id just rather hand over 2,000 and get my self a stage 2 or 3 form people i trust
just my opinion
We already have that system setup.
But people tend to just refer to it as manifold/remap....cams/manifold/remap...cams/manifold/headwork/remap and so on and so forth. I'm just not a fan of the name 'stages'.
But if you email either of us you will see that we are quite able to discuss and reccomend something to suit budget or need as i know not everybody can decide what cam profile or modification would be best for them. I an honest guy and reguarly turn away work or plain reccomend not to do a modification if its not worthwhile.
But people tend to just refer to it as manifold/remap....cams/manifold/remap...cams/manifold/headwork/remap and so on and so forth. I'm just not a fan of the name 'stages'.
But if you email either of us you will see that we are quite able to discuss and reccomend something to suit budget or need as i know not everybody can decide what cam profile or modification would be best for them. I an honest guy and reguarly turn away work or plain reccomend not to do a modification if its not worthwhile.
From what I see to get the big power you need TB's. Ross' engine managed 217 but with a heavily modified manifold\plenham.
TB's are ££££'s simple as that unless someone gets them done and working with a nice gain for 3k whats the point in argueing whether they should be cheaper then the quoted 3.5-4k.
When Bens new inlet has been developed and PROVEN I will probably get one for mine as a cheaper alternative to TB's.
I think it will be developed on Ross' car so it will be interesting to see whether it will be more powerful then yozzas TB'd car when its finished. Theres something to look forward to
TB's are ££££'s simple as that unless someone gets them done and working with a nice gain for 3k whats the point in argueing whether they should be cheaper then the quoted 3.5-4k.
When Bens new inlet has been developed and PROVEN I will probably get one for mine as a cheaper alternative to TB's.
I think it will be developed on Ross' car so it will be interesting to see whether it will be more powerful then yozzas TB'd car when its finished. Theres something to look forward to
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MarkM said:will be more powerful then yozzas TB'd car when its finished. Theres something to look forward to
what a lot of people don't know, is Yoz's engine is in being rebuilt, obviouslly with more toys on/in it!
spend what you're happy spending, just get as much advise as possible, talk to people etc etc
Fred2001Dynamic said:
I wasnt trying to start an argument with that last comment by the way.
Your exactly right I believe Yozzas car is pushing the limits of the engine as much as Ross' useing different products and approaches.
Without people spending there money on the cars and proving the products and approaches work or dont work and to what extent they do, people like myself who want a bit more out of the car would not be able to spend money without at least some peace of mind as to what to expect.
I have every respect for all the people who are pushing 220bhp and beyond.
EVOgone said:
Nothing confidential, but it'll just end up with some guy writing some content, then me reading it, not liking it and correcting it...in which case i might aswell wright the content then hand it over to someone to put onto a website. Thats what i'm saying, not that i dont trust someone with my secrets, because i have none.
I'm anal about how correct information has to be and how it is passed across to customers. I spend lots of time doing and designing what i do, so i dont want it to be seen as generic blub.
I'm just chuffed that there is something resembling a tuning scene for the RS clios. I remember when I first came on here there was very little in terms of tuning products for the F4R. Now, and thanks in no small part to GDI and Angelworks Tech, there are tuning mods available to suit all budgets.
Before you could have an induction kit and an exhaust or TB's and that was it. lol.
Before you could have an induction kit and an exhaust or TB's and that was it. lol.
MERCEDES CLS AMG
BenR said:
Whats wrong with a VAG lump ? - it will produce more power then the F4R 736, more reliability, more tuning potential, it can be mated up to a VW 6 speed box that can be fitted with an LSD for £450, not the infamous JC5 129 in the 172 that chews up bearings and synchro rings for fun because of its poor build quality + a reliable 275 bhp can be produced for about £4000. The APY lump has a tuning potential of around 450bhp plus, with the correct turbo and ancilleries.........makes sense to me
The 1.8T VAG lump is now becoming recognised as one of the most affordable and tunable engines ever built and more and more companies are using it in there production cars - especially smaller companies that build track cars
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=112&i=12097
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Fred2001Dynamic said:not forgetting Roamer, he kicked off REAL engine tunning on the F4R IMO
(Mark, wasn't starting an arguement, just saying, we have to spend more money to stay ahead of you lot!!
I didn't realise that! Fair play to him, takes balls to do something like that. Credit where it's due.
Ben - Where do I send the cheque?:clown:
