2003 172 in limp mode

[Tony S 321]

Hi, I'm new to forum but wonder if anyone can point me in a direction with this?
Car went into limp mode last week. Had the car diagnosed and came up with following codes:-

Track 2 of throttle pedal
Map sensor fault
Induction damper
5v reference circuit

We have switched throttle pedal, MAP sensor (and throttle body) but no change and codes wont clear. The MAP sensor is not recoding any value on the diagnostic kit.

Looking at forum people have mentioned broken wires, but wondered if anyone could direct me? Very many thanks

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Check where the loom track up the side of the battery tray area , and make sure the white block connector in the bottom of the fuse box isn't all crapped up

 

[Tony S 321]

Check where the loom track up the side of the battery tray area , and make sure the white block connector in the bottom of the fuse box isn't all crapped up

Very many thanks for rapid response - really appreciated - will check tomorrow. Thank you again

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

No probs, seems as you have the fault for 5V reference , it's going to be a wire break or another component on that circuit is shorted out

 

[Tony S 321]

Many thanks for the help with this one - really appreciated. We finally tracked the problem down to a faulty pressure switch on the air-conditioning condenser!

Just for others benefit, our learning points are, if you get several sensor faults that won't clear (and the 5V reference issue) it is likely to be a drain/short on the 5V circuit that is causing issue, but it might not be any of the sensors etc shown. The 5V feed supplies a multitude of sensors (including the air-conditioning!)

Thanks again for your help - managed to eliminate other issues,

 

[STEVE.M]

Many thanks for the help with this one - really appreciated. We finally tracked the problem down to a faulty pressure switch on the air-conditioning condenser!

All new input is always appreciated, but where is the A/C pressure switch located on the condenser?

 

[Tony S 321]

Hi Steve, many thanks. It's not shown on this photo, but is located in front of the air box air intake pipe. Had we not taken out the air box, we wouldn't have seen it. I can photograph our car if it helps, but don't know if this is universal on all similar models.

 

[STEVE.M]

Hi Steve, many thanks. It's not shown on this photo, but is located in front of the air box air intake pipe. Had we not taken out the air box, we wouldn't have seen it. I can photograph our car if it helps, but don't know if this is universal on all similar models.

A photo would much appreciated.
Thank you in advance.

 

[bloke]

on the pipe that comes off the passengers side.

 

[STEVE.M]

.

 

[STEVE.M]

Hi Steve, many thanks. It's not shown on this photo, but is located in front of the air box air intake pipe. Had we not taken out the air box, we wouldn't have seen it. I can photograph our car if it helps, but don't know if this is universal on all similar models.

I assume it is this plug with 3 wires next to the rad top hose?
Which wire is the 5v feed, and what exactly was the fault.
Was there any other tell tale clue, such as the compressor not engaging?

 

[Tony S 321]

Hi Steve, that's the one! I will have to come back to you about the three wires/wiring code if I can locate the wiring diagram we downloaded. All we did was disconnect this sensor and it finally allowed us to clear the engine codes which had placed the car into permanent limp. The air-con was not working on this car before this latest fault, but we think that was a gassing issue.

If this sensor is faulty then the air conditioning will not work. I am not sure what you issues are, but if its engine issues/limp mode etc, the best advice would be to disconnect the sensor anyway and see if other issues resolved.

I hope this helps?

 

[STEVE.M]

Hi Steve, that's the one! I will have to come back to you about the three wires/wiring code if I can locate the wiring diagram we downloaded. All we did was disconnect this sensor and it finally allowed us to clear the engine codes which had placed the car into permanent limp. The air-con was not working on this car before this latest fault, but we think that was a gassing issue.

If this sensor is faulty then the air conditioning will not work. I am not sure what you issues are, but if its engine issues/limp mode etc, the best advice would be to disconnect the sensor anyway and see if other issues resolved.

I hope this helps?

Thank you.

I don`t have any current issues, but I like to bank info for future reference.

Wiring diagrams are hens teeth, so yes please.

As a final resolution, if you replace the aircon sensor, will everything be hunky dory?

 

[Tony S 321]

Hi Steve, will dig out the wiring diagrams we managed to locate and as importantly the legend/descriptions we found.
With regards to our fault, yes, the fault/code will be sorted when we replace the sensor. At the moment its just left disconnected.
Best regards - Tony

 

[bloke]

Yellows are ignition lives.

Also of you have a sensor fault then it probably is the sensor, circuit fault is normally wiring issue that's why it's always best to check with clip as so many readers misread codes and can send you on a wild goose chase.

 

[STEVE.M]

Hi Steve, will dig out the wiring diagrams we managed to locate and as importantly the legend/descriptions we found.
With regards to our fault, yes, the fault/code will be sorted when we replace the sensor. At the moment its just left disconnected.
Best regards - Tony

Is it fair to say that you are not 100% certain that the switch is at fault, but that you have found that the fault is eliminated when the switch is disconnected?

 

[STEVE.M]

Is this the correct switch/sender?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-...688693&hash=item239aa3d969:g:PdEAAOSwny1ajp0t

 

[Tony S 321]

Hi Steve, that switch is correct one. It is definitely switch which has short as if it was wiring or anywhere else on car, the codes wouldn't clear.

 

[STEVE.M]

Hi Steve, that switch is correct one. It is definitely switch which has short as if it was wiring or anywhere else on car, the codes wouldn't clear.

If you know the switch is shorting, fine.
Otherwise it could be downstream, as you have only disconnected it?

 

[Tony S 321]

Hi Steve, no it can't really as the short that is evident would still be there whether the sensor was disconnected or not. Please remember it was showing a 5V reference fault/short which has now been cleared and not reappeared. Secondly, when the car is scanned (Search System) it now knows the pressure sensor is disconnected - that is only code showing.

 

[STEVE.M]

Hi Steve, no it can't really as the short that is evident would still be there whether the sensor was disconnected or not. Please remember it was showing a 5V reference fault/short which has now been cleared and not reappeared. Secondly, when the car is scanned (Search System) it now knows the pressure sensor is disconnected - that is only code showing.

If you have not sourced a switch as yet, try @20vKarlos as he has removed his aircon.

 

[Hetty85]

seems like i have "samelike" issue. Does your electric fault lamp turn on with limp mode?

 

[Tony S 321]

If you have not sourced a switch as yet, try @20vKarlos as he has removed his aircon.

Many thanks Steve - will think about it, but the air-con wasn't working before this fault anyway - so a bigger issue than just sensor. If we get a good summer will get it looked at. Thanks again

 

[Tony S 321]

seems like i have "samelike" issue. Does your electric fault lamp turn on with limp mode?

Hi, really sorry to hear. In short the answer is yes. Almost certainly an electrical fault, otherwise the car wouldn't put the lights on. Our Clio went into limp mode and both lights were illuminated. The problem is that whilst the fault codes will be stored in the ECU, the codes stored may or may not be the actual issue/problem. I would suggest that you do all the basic checks of obvious broken wires and connectors. If that does not reveal a problem, the only real way is to get the car scanned with a decent scanner or diagnostics - that will give you the start point as to where the problem appears to be. If you do have access to a scanner, disconnecting each sensor one at a time and rescanning may allow you to target the culprit. In our case the (air-con pressure) sensor had a fault. Once it was disconnected, we could clear all the other fault codes and the engine ran (and continues to run) out of limp mode.

I did have access to some wiring diagrams and narrative/legend which I am trying to locate and will upload.

I hope this this helps a bit? Good luck

 

[Hetty85]

I have my 2002 clio 1.2 at the Renault mechanic here in town. He tried to change gass pedal, remove the connector there and sodder it, changed the throtle house, checkt the loom and all the wires. They then test drive for about 2 minuts or so, because everytime i pick it up, i get the fault after 5 minutes. If it stand still for a while and i start, its not in limp mode and electric light is of, 5 minuts of driving it comes on and im back in limp mode.

 

[Tony S 321]

I have my 2002 clio 1.2 at the Renault mechanic here in town. He tried to change gass pedal, remove the connector there and sodder it, changed the throtle house, checkt the loom and all the wires. They then test drive for about 2 minuts or so, because everytime i pick it up, i get the fault after 5 minutes. If it stand still for a while and i start, its not in limp mode and electric light is of, 5 minuts of driving it comes on and im back in limp mode.

Hi, you cannot be 100% certain (especially from a distance) but it appears your Clio is throwing up codes associated with the throttle pedal/potentiometer and the throttle body. In my limited experience it is unlikely to be both and possibly neither! I can only reiterate what I have already said previously and try to get the car scanned when its actually in limp mode. Sorry!

 

[Hetty85]

Yeah, they scanned it in limp mode, think he was going to scan it while it was running also when limp mode turns on. Changed both pedal and throttle body, but did not work

 

[Tony S 321]

I might be wrong, but as I said towards the start of this thread, our Clio came up with both throttle and throttle body faults (together with MAP sensor) and was none of these. It would be unlikely to be both of your components - my guess is that there is another underlying issue.

 

[STEVE.M]

I might be wrong, but as I said towards the start of this thread, our Clio came up with both throttle and throttle body faults (together with MAP sensor) and was none of these. It would be unlikely to be both of your components - my guess is that there is another underlying issue.

It will be the wiring/loom! @bloke

 

[Hetty85]

Renault`s electronic mechanic has checked the loom/wires :/

 

[Tony S 321]

Can you get hold of all the codes saved (and pending) and post on here? I'm interested to see if there is a "thread" of issues. The problem is that the codes you focus on make sense as being the problem, mask the underlying issue. Are there any other codes that are NOT engine related?

 

[STEVE.M]

Renault`s electronic mechanic has checked the loom/wires :/

And wasted your time/money changing pedal and throttle body?
I have no photo`s of elbows or arses to post, but you get the picture?

 

[Hetty85]

I didnt have to pay for them, they tried them on. codes : DF005 DF136 DF064 DF082

 

[Tony S 321]

Hi, this is always a risky process trying to diagnose a car over the internet, but here goes!! (It's hard enough sometimes when you have the car and the kit!)
From the codes given I cannot see (at this point) issues with the throttle or throttle body (unless other codes relating to these have been cleared already).
DF005 relates to crank sensor, (but ironically it could be cam sensor as there may be implausibility between the two signals). Either way could cause your car to misfire and go into limp. DF136 is likely to be a misfire too - it could be as simple as a spark plug or coil/lead, but might also be connected with the crank sensor or vice versa. DF0064 is odd as its vehicle speed sensor. I doubt this will cause your issues, but would create a problem with ABS/ESP brakes if fitted. I just wonder if this is where confusion came from re throttle? DF082 is a lambda sensor. From my experience you will get this code if an engine has a misfire as either the sensor becomes clogged (due to soot etc) or the sensor cannot get the vehicle emissions in line with inbuilt expectations. Of course it could actually be a faulty sensor too!

Said another way, three of your 4 codes relate to misfire and the 4th is unlikely to be the problem, although I might have to be corrected.

Finally, your car is not permanently in limp mode so it is not a chronic issue - or issue always apparent. It does appear predictable however.

For what its worth, I would move away from throttle issues and look for a fault causing a misfire. A good scanner will not only tell you the fault code, but the frequency - the larger the number, the more likely to be the root of the issue, rather than symptoms. Also, can you clear any of the codes or do some just stick? You need to address these first.

I hope I have read these codes correctly and hope this may help you to focus on the likely area? Good luck!