200bhp NA build

[Oddesy]

I'm currently working on my 172 Cup build with the aim to acheive as close to 200bhp as i can. I've spent the past few months tidying up my engine bay and installing an RS2 intake, I've had 197 cams put in when I had the cambelt done and I'm at the point now where I'm about to sort all the fueling side of things.

I find that I'm going through a bit of a minefield trying to find the right approach with the fueling with differing opinons and advice coming in from all over the place, I've spoken to multiple companies, tuning places and people running the same intake and trying to get the same sort of power. Apologies to anyone I've already spoken to, I mean no disrespect to your advice, but I'm just trying to get my set up right before I take the car off to be mapped.

Originally I was going to go with 197 injectors and get the car mapped and see what the outcome was, job done however...

I've been told now that stock injectors will be fine for 200bhp and they're capable of 208bhp (it was my understanding they'd be running flat out at that power which isnt ideal) hence 197 injectors being the choice).

I've also been told that running the stock injectors with an upgraded fuel pump and return line would be more than enough for 200bhp and I must upgrade the pump to up the bhp.

After digging around I've found multiple people saying that the stock pump is capable of over 230bhp and its the injectors that are the limit here, you see the dilemma...

So now my thoughts are do I just upgrade the injectors and the pump, fit a regulator and a return line, but I feel like im readying the car for a boosted build which just seems exessive, is there any downside to going all out with the fueling side of things?

I'm just afer the general consenus here, anyone with experience of NA builds, RS2 intakes, etc any input or advice would be greatly appreicated.

Cheers!

 

[Stay Puft]

If my memory is correct, @NorthloopCup had a big power NA build.

 

[Darren S]

Click on the link under my avatar. I got to 199bhp with mine.

 

[MLB]

Mine was running about 200bhp with 197 injectors, standard fuel pump, standard cams, RS2, no aircon and I believe standard standard cat and unsilenced Milltek exhaust . Tuned at EFI.

I'm planning on getting 197 cams installed so be interested to see how much you get out of it. What timing did you use?

Also have a look for @Coops Mk1 build, that was well over 200 with similar mods.

 

[Clio_fool]

@Chambers_RS ran a rs2 for a while.

 

[KitsonRis]

I made 199bhp in my Ph1 172 with the following:

• KTec ITBs
• Megane 225 injectors
• 4 bar fuel pressure regulator (easier on a Ph1 engine as the fuel pressure regulator is on the fuel rail so I didn’t have to change the fuel pump)
• Had new coil pack, spark plugs, Magnecore HT leads, cam belt and rephrase changed a few years back, less than 3000 miles
• GEN90 ECU
• Standard cams
• Standard fuel pump
• Tuned at EFI, couldn’t quite make the 200bhp mark but the best run was 199.4bhp
• It does still have a cat but has a stainless steel custom made exhaust

I was surprised with this power. Great power delivery in it too.
Will be getting CatCam 423 put in when the cam belt is changed next.

My suggestion is to change the injectors for Megane 225 ones and if you can simply swap to a Ph1 fuel pump then do that and run an external 4 bar fuel pressure regulator. I have the KTec billet fuel rail and then piped in a fuel pressure regulator external fitting kit from PMS.

 

[Coops Mk1]

I made 212bhp with 197 injectors on a return fuel system setup and I think walbro pump it is, but didn't fit that pump specifically, was just in the car at the time.

That's stock engine, RS2 inlet and the 197 cams with 7 degree inlet advance, oh and 182 exhaust manifold

Think scoff at EFi said the injectors were at about 97 percent duty cycle at that power, so standard 1*2 wouldn't have cut the mustard

 

[NorthloopCup]

I made 230bhp using Megane 225 injectors and a standard fuel pump. The fuel system was totally stock except for the injectors.

100% the standard injectors are NOT up to the task @Oddesy

 

[Ph1 Tom]

I ran 207bhp on standard injectors at 4bar.

IWP043 330cc/min injectors would give you a bit of headroom.

225 Megane injectors are massive for a N/A build

 

[NorthloopCup]

225 Megane injectors are massive for a N/A build

Go big or go home. 😁

 

[Ph1 Tom]

At 80% duty cycle they're enough for over 310bhp

 

[Krarl]

I'll be (hopefully) putting an engine together for mine over winter

Clio 200 pistons
Clio 200 cams
172 head
172 block
Clio 200 crank
Clio 200 valves
Clio 200 valve springs and retainers
Clio 197 injectors
Standard ported inlet
197 fuel pump (swapping it because the car is 20 years old and I have a 197 pump sat in the unit)

Hopefully it'll crack 200bhp. If not then I might have to keep my eye out for a Tossa or an RS2. I've got high hopes for 200bhp since Ben's car made decent power on a standard engine with 197 cams and an inlet and I know a few people that have cracked it with fairly standard engines too

I think I'd kill myself if I went through the f**k about of putting throttle bodies on my car and it made less than 200bhp🤣

 

[KitsonRis]

I think I'd kill myself if I went through the f**k about of putting throttle bodies on my car and it made less than 200bhp🤣

But 0.6bhp off 200.
Although the only faffing I had was sorting out the ECU as mine is a Ph1, from what I’m told a Ph2 is plug and play.

 

[Krarl]

View attachment 1659024
But 0.6bhp off 200.
Although the only faffing I had was sorting out the ECU as mine is a Ph1, from what I’m told a Ph2 is plug and play.

I'd be so gutted it couldn't cusp 200bhp. Bodies are such a mess about in comparison to a standard single TB style inlet

The noise from them is something else though🥵

 

[Clio_fool]

I think I'd kill myself if I went through the f**k about of putting throttle bodies on my car and it made less than 200bhp🤣

Let's hope it turns out better than the megane engine then!












Only joking babes 🤗.

 

[KitsonRis]

I'd be so gutted it couldn't cusp 200bhp. Bodies are such a mess about in comparison to a standard single TB style inlet

The noise from them is something else though🥵

Oh the noise. It’s glorious. I really want to do the 6 cylinder engine on my E34 as that will sound epic. I sort of priced a kit up for it….then looked at the “gains” and the only actual gain was noise, pretty poor power increase for it

 

[Oddesy]

Cheers for the replies everyone, much appreciated

 

[gambit]

Looking at completing my 197/182 hybrid engine build as well. 197 cams, match ported inlets to head, possibly 197 rods and pistons with ARP rod bolts and then mapping to suit.

 

[Optimista]

Hi

Do you think there is a need for bigger injectors, 172 phase 1

Pipercams bp270
Larger throttle body
Ported intake manifold
Std pistons & valves

The car is remapped but dont know the exact HP as I bought it recently, rev limited is at 7800 but I think its annoverkill..

The car is going nice, thinking about 182 manifold to suit it, and new remap.
Dont know ehat HP are people running with bp270 setup and if the oem injectors can hadle it?
It has external fuel pressure regulator on the rail