182, SQ7, Trafic
Ahh that's ok then! No other ideas though!
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205 Endurance Racer Prototype
- Thread starter CamMoreRon
- Start date
Ahh that's ok then! No other ideas though!
172 Cup
Hello again.. These 2 weeks have flown by!
I've spent a fair bit of that time planning to re-work the wiring for the DTA, which has been no simple task tbh. As I'm now ditching all the FR stuff it made no sense to keep everything as it was and work around, because working around a work-around would just cause chaos and there's barely any space for wires as it is. More on that later..
I did manage to fit all the windows last week - plastic everything!
I got the windscreen fitters down the road to help out and I'm really glad I did! The last set of windows I fitted using Sikaflex, and while that stuff is great it has absolutely nothing on the proper windscreen stuff - the grab on it is unbelievable.
Back to the wiring job.. I picked up the DTA S40 and SX-Dash last week too.
Then spent a fair bit of time picking apart the FR engine loom so I could suss everything out.. I also spent HOURS trawling the internet to find out what all the OEM Renault connectors are, which was beyond tedious. (PM me if you ever need to know and I'll make a separate thread)
I decided it was easiest to do all of this out of the car, as there isn't loads of nice fresh paint waiting to get scratched. Got everything hooked up to the battery and powered it up so I could test the sensor connections. I had some inconsistent readings on the MAP sensor so it's looking like a strong possibility there was a fault in the wiring for it. The harness has so much damage and repairs on it that this is hardly surprising.
Back to the re-worked wiring, here's a prime example of why it's a good idea. The dash harness had to use 3 connectors - two to the FR harness and one to the circuit breakers. Keeping it as it was would mean I had to make an extra harness between it all and that would have made things impossible when it came to connecting / disconnecting it all - it was enough of a PITA as it was!
So now it ditches a 19-pin and two 12-pin plugs in favour of one 48-pin plug.
I also replaced the spade connectors on the little push-buttons with some tiny 2-pin connectors (white) so everything is a lot easier to work with, should it ever need to be taken apart.
The new SX-Dash in place - looks a lot tidier than the FR one IMO.
That's it for now.. all the wiring stuff I need turned up today, so I hope to have it back up and running by the end of next week.
I've spent a fair bit of that time planning to re-work the wiring for the DTA, which has been no simple task tbh. As I'm now ditching all the FR stuff it made no sense to keep everything as it was and work around, because working around a work-around would just cause chaos and there's barely any space for wires as it is. More on that later..
I did manage to fit all the windows last week - plastic everything!
I got the windscreen fitters down the road to help out and I'm really glad I did! The last set of windows I fitted using Sikaflex, and while that stuff is great it has absolutely nothing on the proper windscreen stuff - the grab on it is unbelievable.
Back to the wiring job.. I picked up the DTA S40 and SX-Dash last week too.
Then spent a fair bit of time picking apart the FR engine loom so I could suss everything out.. I also spent HOURS trawling the internet to find out what all the OEM Renault connectors are, which was beyond tedious. (PM me if you ever need to know and I'll make a separate thread)
I decided it was easiest to do all of this out of the car, as there isn't loads of nice fresh paint waiting to get scratched. Got everything hooked up to the battery and powered it up so I could test the sensor connections. I had some inconsistent readings on the MAP sensor so it's looking like a strong possibility there was a fault in the wiring for it. The harness has so much damage and repairs on it that this is hardly surprising.
Back to the re-worked wiring, here's a prime example of why it's a good idea. The dash harness had to use 3 connectors - two to the FR harness and one to the circuit breakers. Keeping it as it was would mean I had to make an extra harness between it all and that would have made things impossible when it came to connecting / disconnecting it all - it was enough of a PITA as it was!
So now it ditches a 19-pin and two 12-pin plugs in favour of one 48-pin plug.
I also replaced the spade connectors on the little push-buttons with some tiny 2-pin connectors (white) so everything is a lot easier to work with, should it ever need to be taken apart.
The new SX-Dash in place - looks a lot tidier than the FR one IMO.
That's it for now.. all the wiring stuff I need turned up today, so I hope to have it back up and running by the end of next week.
172 Cup
A quick update..
I started the week by making the DTA harness, which has turned out pretty nice.
Uses 100% OEM connectors, which I'm quite pleased about.
I'm also pretty happy to have found Spec 55 twisted & shielded cable by the ft at a very good price, so the whole lot cost £15 which beats having to buy a whole roll for £400!
And then this was taken this morning.. my bench has definitely been tidier!
Not quite finished, which is a bit of a bummer as I hoped to have it all finished today, but it should be ready early next week.
I started the week by making the DTA harness, which has turned out pretty nice.
Uses 100% OEM connectors, which I'm quite pleased about.
I'm also pretty happy to have found Spec 55 twisted & shielded cable by the ft at a very good price, so the whole lot cost £15 which beats having to buy a whole roll for £400!
And then this was taken this morning.. my bench has definitely been tidier!
Not quite finished, which is a bit of a bummer as I hoped to have it all finished today, but it should be ready early next week.
Nafoff
ClioSport Club Member
Hi Cameron,
Such a great project. I was un-aware you were on cliosport. Had I known I would have directed you to my project thread on here when we were talking about cages for my project.
The work on this project is second to none, really beautiful with such nice attention to detail - interesting to hear you are learning some of it whilst on the job (obviously not the fabrication).
I would be interested to know who has done your Billet machine work?
I have also messaged your Saloon Libre facebook account - I have a potential interesting proposition for you.
Such a great project. I was un-aware you were on cliosport. Had I known I would have directed you to my project thread on here when we were talking about cages for my project.
The work on this project is second to none, really beautiful with such nice attention to detail - interesting to hear you are learning some of it whilst on the job (obviously not the fabrication).
I would be interested to know who has done your Billet machine work?
I have also messaged your Saloon Libre facebook account - I have a potential interesting proposition for you.
172 Cup
GOOD NEWS! It's now up and running on the DTA and with zero hesitation. :beers:
(Click for video)
The past few days have been a bloody nightmare.. I had problems with the throttle pot reading 60% when closed and the battery isolator malfunctioning, which have taken up 2 whole days to fix, but it's now running properly and booked in for mapping on the 10th. Getting very excited about testing it now. :grin:
In other news I also finished some of the other bits, such as firewall windows:
The dash is now back in, hopefully for good!
I also did some clever wiring with the on / off / fire buttons.. it isn't mandatory that the extinguishers cut the power, but it sure is recommended and I have little doubt that it will be mandated in the future. Believe me that getting the fire button to cut both power and discharge the extinguishers, and the off buttons to just kill the power was a real logic puzzle - especially when there are both buttons inside and out. It has a beautifully simple solution though, so I'm pretty bloody pleased about that.
Finally I broke out my super expensive custom motorsport tracking gauges and set some base geometry:
(Above pic pre-adjustment - it won't run toe like that 😅 )
Anyway I'm off for several beers. :beers:
(Click for video)
The past few days have been a bloody nightmare.. I had problems with the throttle pot reading 60% when closed and the battery isolator malfunctioning, which have taken up 2 whole days to fix, but it's now running properly and booked in for mapping on the 10th. Getting very excited about testing it now. :grin:
In other news I also finished some of the other bits, such as firewall windows:
The dash is now back in, hopefully for good!
I also did some clever wiring with the on / off / fire buttons.. it isn't mandatory that the extinguishers cut the power, but it sure is recommended and I have little doubt that it will be mandated in the future. Believe me that getting the fire button to cut both power and discharge the extinguishers, and the off buttons to just kill the power was a real logic puzzle - especially when there are both buttons inside and out. It has a beautifully simple solution though, so I'm pretty bloody pleased about that.
Finally I broke out my super expensive custom motorsport tracking gauges and set some base geometry:
(Above pic pre-adjustment - it won't run toe like that 😅 )
Anyway I'm off for several beers. :beers:
172 Cup
Drop me a PM if you're interested. :up:
The bellhousing was machined by Cutting Edge in Chelmsford. He's very good but understandably very very busy!
What he said! Stops you accidentally knocking it into neutral or reverse when slamming down through the gears.
dann2707
ClioSport Club Member
This is THE coolest thing on the forum. Fact.
Knuckles
ClioSport Admin
Please trailer this to csf!
Matt Cup
ClioSport Club Member
Leon Cupra
Cheers, every days a school day. :up:
172 Cup
Just gonna leave this here.. :grin:
172 Cup
Happy to say it's being mapped without the restrictor, so it'll be interesting to see what it makes. Original output was 185bhp then increased to 210bhp in 2006, so if ours had the later engine then it should make decent power! 210bhp will be absolutely plenty.
Weighed it this morning and it's 848kg in race trim with a full tank and 915kg with me sat in it - both at 44% front.
Weighed it this morning and it's 848kg in race trim with a full tank and 915kg with me sat in it - both at 44% front.
172 Cup
Well it's going for its first track day next weekend, but we have an awful lot to get through on the day so won't be hoping for crowds! Once the car has been set up and shaken down the owner should be a bit more happy for people to come and see it. :up:
terryc101
ClioSport Club Member
172 Cup
OK, so.. Monday morning was the mapping session, which all started off very nicely.
I enjoyed this view all the way from MK to Track n Road in Rainham..
And then after an hour or so of fiddling to get the starting map sorted, the guys started to work on the low rpm / part throttle stuff.. I was JUST about to take a picture of it all when they called me over to say it wasn't charging very well and it all kinda went downhill from there.
To cut a long story short, the alternator wasn't able to keep the battery topped up during the low speed running, so it drained to the point where the fuel pump could no longer supply enough pressure and they were having to run insane amounts of injector trim to keep it rich enough. The alt is driven 0.9:1 off the crank, so meant for a formula car which never idles and is straight up to >5krpm and stays there!
I've tested the battery voltage, but only when fully charged, so the 13V seemed to be just fine. However, after having the fan running for ~30mins or so the battery was totally dead and even with a booster pack linked up to it the voltage could barely reach 12.4V.
We had a chat for a bit, going over possible fixes, then I loaded it back up and headed home.
Not exactly perfect after all the trouble I've had with the Formula Renault electronics.. it seems that everything electronic that came with the engine is fit for the bin and the car will only be reliable when it's all been replaced!
It's not all bad, though.. after some phone calls I have a Brise alternator (120A) on order with a TINY 25mm pulley, which should drive it at ~2:1 off the crank. I've also got hold of a set of 330cc Pico injectors and a 3 Bar FPR so the pump doesn't have to work quite so hard! This should take care of all the electrical woes, and I've booked another mapping session for next Tuesday so it won't be a long wait!
While the car is back in the workshop, I've also made some changes to the suspension. Seeing as the struts weren't made to drawing (which we're pretty pissed off about actually) the front ride height has been way too high, even though the ride height adjustment is set as low as possible. The only work-around has been to fit softer springs, going from 600lb/in to 450lb/in. I've also had to adjust the rear down from 500lb/in to 400lb/in, and have fitted some spring aids to add a bit of progression in now that the initial rates are quite soft.
This is the bump stop that came with the struts - crap, basically. Literally just something to stop metal-metal contact.
The front now has a 43mm long spring aid and 450lb spring, with an option for 500lb
And the rear has a 68mm spring aid and 400lb spring, now 8" long, with an option for 450lb
The result is much better!
It's still 10mm high at the front, but it was 33mm high before so this is much much better.
Next week is going to be a busy one.. mapping is booked for Tuesday morning, then in the evening it'll be at Brands for a first test, so all digits crossed that the electrical woes are over! Then it'll be doing a full day at Cadwell later in the week. :astonished:
I enjoyed this view all the way from MK to Track n Road in Rainham..
And then after an hour or so of fiddling to get the starting map sorted, the guys started to work on the low rpm / part throttle stuff.. I was JUST about to take a picture of it all when they called me over to say it wasn't charging very well and it all kinda went downhill from there.
To cut a long story short, the alternator wasn't able to keep the battery topped up during the low speed running, so it drained to the point where the fuel pump could no longer supply enough pressure and they were having to run insane amounts of injector trim to keep it rich enough. The alt is driven 0.9:1 off the crank, so meant for a formula car which never idles and is straight up to >5krpm and stays there!
I've tested the battery voltage, but only when fully charged, so the 13V seemed to be just fine. However, after having the fan running for ~30mins or so the battery was totally dead and even with a booster pack linked up to it the voltage could barely reach 12.4V.
We had a chat for a bit, going over possible fixes, then I loaded it back up and headed home.
Not exactly perfect after all the trouble I've had with the Formula Renault electronics.. it seems that everything electronic that came with the engine is fit for the bin and the car will only be reliable when it's all been replaced!
It's not all bad, though.. after some phone calls I have a Brise alternator (120A) on order with a TINY 25mm pulley, which should drive it at ~2:1 off the crank. I've also got hold of a set of 330cc Pico injectors and a 3 Bar FPR so the pump doesn't have to work quite so hard! This should take care of all the electrical woes, and I've booked another mapping session for next Tuesday so it won't be a long wait!
While the car is back in the workshop, I've also made some changes to the suspension. Seeing as the struts weren't made to drawing (which we're pretty pissed off about actually) the front ride height has been way too high, even though the ride height adjustment is set as low as possible. The only work-around has been to fit softer springs, going from 600lb/in to 450lb/in. I've also had to adjust the rear down from 500lb/in to 400lb/in, and have fitted some spring aids to add a bit of progression in now that the initial rates are quite soft.
This is the bump stop that came with the struts - crap, basically. Literally just something to stop metal-metal contact.
The front now has a 43mm long spring aid and 450lb spring, with an option for 500lb
And the rear has a 68mm spring aid and 400lb spring, now 8" long, with an option for 450lb
The result is much better!
It's still 10mm high at the front, but it was 33mm high before so this is much much better.
Next week is going to be a busy one.. mapping is booked for Tuesday morning, then in the evening it'll be at Brands for a first test, so all digits crossed that the electrical woes are over! Then it'll be doing a full day at Cadwell later in the week. :astonished:
172 Cup
Headed back down to Track n Road this morning with all the little problems fixed and had a pretty good morning getting the low speed stuff all sorted out.
All of a sudden the car jolts and Steve shouts for me to check the transmission while it coasted down.. I see a little wisp of smoke from the CV boot and the car is jerking / knocking so something is obviously up. The rollers eventually stop and this is what we see:
It happened at ~50% throttle at around 3krpm, so not exactly under full load. Thankfully it chose to do it then though, as they were just about to start power runs and I dread to think what could have happened if it let go at 7.5k!
My hunch is the shaft or CV has stripped the splines, as the twisted up CV boot and the wisp of smoke (I assume from the shaft spinning under the boot clamp) seem to point to that. I don't think the shaft has twisted / snapped as it still felt solid, but I could well be wrong. We'll see tomorrow!
All of a sudden the car jolts and Steve shouts for me to check the transmission while it coasted down.. I see a little wisp of smoke from the CV boot and the car is jerking / knocking so something is obviously up. The rollers eventually stop and this is what we see:
It happened at ~50% throttle at around 3krpm, so not exactly under full load. Thankfully it chose to do it then though, as they were just about to start power runs and I dread to think what could have happened if it let go at 7.5k!
My hunch is the shaft or CV has stripped the splines, as the twisted up CV boot and the wisp of smoke (I assume from the shaft spinning under the boot clamp) seem to point to that. I don't think the shaft has twisted / snapped as it still felt solid, but I could well be wrong. We'll see tomorrow!
172 Cup
Yeah, with so many bits that were never really intended to go together stuff like this tends to happen.. although as per below this one should never have been a problem!
It immediately became obvious what had happened yesterday and what caused it.. a picture says a thousand words!
What happened is the driveshaft had been supplied without any grease in the CV joint, so it has overheated (note the colours on the bearing cage - dark grey is around 450degC) and then seized. The vibration from seizing then worked the driveshaft out of the CV, which you can see from the serrated marks on the splines, until it bottomed out in the diff output. Thankfully at that point it was far enough out of the CV to just grind the end off the driveshaft splines (tapered end should be square) and not obliterate the gearbox!
There are some slight witness marks in the bottom of the diff output from where the tripod rollers bottomed out, but nothing that would necessitate its replacement, so the tripod will just be replaced as a safety measure and that should be that.
While I was at it I had a look at the CV on the opposite side and found that was also bone dry!
Not fully buggered just yet, but it will need to be replaced to be safe, so I'll be giving the supplier a call to understand why I was given fully assembled shafts with no grease in them. :triumph:
Total repair bill will be 2 x outer CV joints, one inner tripod joint, one driveshaft. Could be a lot worse but could also have been easily avoided!
Evo 5 RS
Given the issues with the electrics I'd happily take that on the chin. Still a pain, though.
Speaking frankly, I wish I could do a tiny fraction of what you've done here!
Speaking frankly, I wish I could do a tiny fraction of what you've done here!
K_McDermott
ClioSport Club Member
Megane 230 r26
What sort of company sends out a fully assembled driveshaft, with boots on and no grease in the joints? I'd be asking them to contribute to the repair costs, that's backwards ♂️
Other than that progress looks awesome as always, love the noise and the sequential [emoji7]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Other than that progress looks awesome as always, love the noise and the sequential [emoji7]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
172 Cup
I spoke to them a little while ago.. they said the "test" shafts are sent out dry and only meant for checking the length, but I distinctly remember him saying we could run the car and make sure everything is OK! The shafts came assembled, booted & clipped, so it baffles me as to why they'd bother doing that when there's no grease in them.
The thing is I can't prove this conversation ever happened and I don't expect them to remember 4 months ago, so it'd just be them taking my word for it. I think it was just a genuine mix-up unfortunately so I can't push for them to cover the costs. Just gonna have to take it for now and be sure to check in the future!
The thing is I can't prove this conversation ever happened and I don't expect them to remember 4 months ago, so it'd just be them taking my word for it. I think it was just a genuine mix-up unfortunately so I can't push for them to cover the costs. Just gonna have to take it for now and be sure to check in the future!
Nafoff
ClioSport Club Member
You are probably happy with your contact but it may be worth looking up Alitech. He is my neighbour (in Wolverton) but has his facility in Silverstone. Very talented guy and very into his cars, has done a lot of stuff for Lotus' but has a massive portfolio.
Did you see my PM by the way?
172 Cup
Right, sorry it's been a while! I went off on holiday for a bit but the car is now back in one piece with a new driveshaft and ready for the (hopefully 3rd time lucky) mapping session on Monday.
The big job (other than driveshafts) has been making a mechanical throttle blip linkage for clutchless downshifts. My original plan for this was some linkage down at the pedal box, but it's such a hassle to work down there that I opted to fit the linkage to the throttle body instead.
A couple of WIP shots..
You can probably see how it works best in this pic, but it's pretty simple. There's a cable from the shift lever which pulls on the rocker (with adjustable ratios via the extra holes) which then pulls the throttle cable away from the TB, opening up the throttle. Dead simple so hopefully it'll prove to be reliable!
A pic of it fitted..
Then I took the car out for a quick test drive to make sure the linkage works. I had it on the "lowest" setting i.e. smallest rev increase and it worked really nicely! So the car now has closed-loop flatshift with the DTA for up-shifts, and clutch-less / throttle-less downshifts thanks to the blipper.
A quick video of the test run - still not mapped past 3.5k so no thrashing it yet!
The big job (other than driveshafts) has been making a mechanical throttle blip linkage for clutchless downshifts. My original plan for this was some linkage down at the pedal box, but it's such a hassle to work down there that I opted to fit the linkage to the throttle body instead.
A couple of WIP shots..
You can probably see how it works best in this pic, but it's pretty simple. There's a cable from the shift lever which pulls on the rocker (with adjustable ratios via the extra holes) which then pulls the throttle cable away from the TB, opening up the throttle. Dead simple so hopefully it'll prove to be reliable!
A pic of it fitted..
Then I took the car out for a quick test drive to make sure the linkage works. I had it on the "lowest" setting i.e. smallest rev increase and it worked really nicely! So the car now has closed-loop flatshift with the DTA for up-shifts, and clutch-less / throttle-less downshifts thanks to the blipper.
A quick video of the test run - still not mapped past 3.5k so no thrashing it yet!
172 Cup
Was that on FB?
Keith185
ClioSport Club Member
Amazing car and incredible work on it
glenn_adam_doble
ClioSport Club Member
uber cool,
shame the steering wheel is on the wrong side :laughing: but mega respect, your work is superb
shame the steering wheel is on the wrong side :laughing: but mega respect, your work is superb
mikekean
ClioSport Club Member
996 C4S, 135i, E30x2
Right, sorry it's been a while! I went off on holiday for a bit but the car is now back in one piece with a new driveshaft and ready for the (hopefully 3rd time lucky) mapping session on Monday.
The big job (other than driveshafts) has been making a mechanical throttle blip linkage for clutchless downshifts. My original plan for this was some linkage down at the pedal box, but it's such a hassle to work down there that I opted to fit the linkage to the throttle body instead.
A couple of WIP shots..
You can probably see how it works best in this pic, but it's pretty simple. There's a cable from the shift lever which pulls on the rocker (with adjustable ratios via the extra holes) which then pulls the throttle cable away from the TB, opening up the throttle. Dead simple so hopefully it'll prove to be reliable!
A pic of it fitted..
Then I took the car out for a quick test drive to make sure the linkage works. I had it on the "lowest" setting i.e. smallest rev increase and it worked really nicely! So the car now has closed-loop flatshift with the DTA for up-shifts, and clutch-less / throttle-less downshifts thanks to the blipper.
A quick video of the test run - still not mapped past 3.5k so no thrashing it yet!
Nice work! how are you sensing the down shifts? just using the cut switch on the box itself?
Nafoff
ClioSport Club Member
Was on here I think.
Just to let you know CamMoreRon someone has downloaded all your photos and set them to rubbish music on YouTube.
172 Cup