yeah is it..i think c.slickers post ??...17+ bla bla...i have said i can get a 172 for about 4k, been in a bump but fixed by a mechanic who owned it so proper job most likely with renault parts with 23k for 4 grand, and if i bought it now i couldnt insure till 21 in sept hence 3month policy etc...all just thinking outloud really