A question of balance.

[seb]

We have numerous posts about issues with games such as MW2 and similar and the everlasting question of balance.

When did balance become such an issue?

I only became aware of it really with mw2 if i am honest, but I was thinking about it tonight and I cannot recall another time when I considered it.

For example, I can remember playing goldeneye on the snes when I was a teenager with 4 other friends. Balance never seemed to be an issue then. If I remember you would start with a pony weapon, but the lobbies decided what type of weapon you and the rest of the players would be able to use. as you wandered around the map you would pick up body armour and more powerful weapons. When you died, you began all again.

I don't recall there being a UAV etc.

Was balance not an issue then or was it because the game modes were so much more simple on these earlier FPS games? Again, I don't remember there being any other game type bar free for all effectively?

What are peoples thoughts? Is it all down to the fact modern FPS now have very intricate game modes, perks, killstreaks and such a variety of weapons that makes it so difficult for them to be balanced due to the complexities of it all over the simple fps such as goldeneye?

Or ia it because we now expect a game to last us several years due to the multiplayer aspect of them and as such we find the issues with them and abuse them? OMA, danger close, noob tubes for example?

 

[z8jay]

See Quake 3 & Counter Strike for how to balance a game correctly

 

[Krispwee]

^ this man speaks sense. Although console gamers may not understand the idea of money management, armour, buying weapons and weapon strategy in a team.

 

[Dan@M.A.D]

I used to bash cod for years, I had 20days on Cod4, 13 on cod5, 18-19 on mw2 and about 5-6 on black ops, I think black ops is the most balanced game out of all the cods but people dont like it because its different, I have now given up cod thanks god! Saddo i used to be

 

[P17 TOO]

Goldeneye was on N64

 

[tyranical]

The more weapons/attachments/equipment/classes you add, the harder it is to balance.

Back in the old days where there was so little variety finding a balance was easy, these days its much more difficult.

There is also the issue of helmets designing maps these days, anyone who plays S& D knows what I mean where one sides spawn point is always better than the others due to more ways to get out of it and better options to attack and bottleneck enemies.

 

[-Jason-]

Cod 5 was the best cod for me as no stupidly powerful weapons and less spray and pray than other cods.

 

[Dan@M.A.D]

Cod 5 was the best cod for me as no stupidly powerful weapons and less spray and pray than other cods.

Seriously? MP40 Dual mag was miles overpowered and you could spray forever! Great game though.

 

[-Jason-]

Ok I didn't spray I liked that most of the guns are single shot which is a great thing.

 

[Darren S]

Good thread there, seb. I think increasingly, there's a desire there by gamers to always tip that sense of balance in their favour - much more now than there ever was in the previous 'generation'. I remember plugging hours and hours into Soldier of Fortune 2 online in simple CTF games because everyone on there had the same access to the same 10 weapons or so. Each weapon had distinct pros and cons and couldn't be upgraded. It relied much more on team play - covering fire, grenade charges, etc than with anything seen on more recent games.

Personally, I think the genre is almost loosing the plot - that something surely has to give at some point. The few hours I've put into MW2 online has left me cold with the achievements and unlock tree. It really does get farcical with the "Achievement Unlocked" messages that appear during the game. It's like players need to feel constantly rewarded these days for their trivial actions, rather than helping the team or complete the objective as a primary concern. I walked through the local shopping centre yesterday and the window front of GAME was plastered with MW3 posters going on about "Double XP Points". Really. Can't the players earn and achieve XP in a normal way - as in, simply by playing the game?

Balance is nigh-on impossible to implement these days simply due to this XP & unlock 'fever' that the devs push out and the 12-year-olds lap up. I'd much prefer to lose an online FPS game against an opposing team, that had the ability and team-work that shone through - rather than half of their team use SCAR-L's with 250 round box, hollow-point, armour-piercing, incendiary tipped bullets - that shot me through 12ft of concrete.

D.

 

[Snakey]

Whenever me and my mates played Goldeneyes we always played one shot kill.

 

[seb]

funnily enough, i googled n64 goldeneye multiplayer and got a video of 4 people clearly using the game mechanics to their advantage. all on grenade launchers and in the particular place to get the ammo reloads LOL

 

[Addicted]

COD4 promod for balance, job done. and just LOL at cod5 being the most balanced, drugs?

 

[Revels]

To start with I thought you meant balance as in falling over

It's all geared towards money now. More achievements/guns to unlock means people will play for longer and if you're still playing when they release more DLC then you're likely to pay for it. People like to feel they've earnt something for the hours they're putting in. It adds competition so you play it more to compete with your friends.

Kill streaks, perks, grenades etc. These all keep the lesser players interested. If they pitch a game at just the hardcore they aren't going to sell as many copies. If BillyBob who only seems to shoot at ankles can feel like he's done okay because he got a kill that was 15ft wide of an enemy but the explosion still got them, then they're going to get more sales. Which means more money.

 

[Cookie]

I remember when an FPS was about more than K/D ratio.. when it was still a team game online

Just a bunch of 12 year old homophobic rambos now

 

[tyranical]

I remember when an FPS was about more than K/D ratio.. when it was still a team game online

Just a bunch of 12 year old homophobic rambos now

Same. I was in a decent clan back in the days of COD and COD:UO. Had Scrims all the time and was in a league etc. Wouldn't even bother trying now.

Bring back the old skool.

 

[Darren S]

To start with I thought you meant balance as in falling over

It's all geared towards money now. More achievements/guns to unlock means people will play for longer and if you're still playing when they release more DLC then you're likely to pay for it. People like to feel they've earnt something for the hours they're putting in. It adds competition so you play it more to compete with your friends.

Kill streaks, perks, grenades etc. These all keep the lesser players interested. If they pitch a game at just the hardcore they aren't going to sell as many copies. If BillyBob who only seems to shoot at ankles can feel like he's done okay because he got a kill that was 15ft wide of an enemy but the explosion still got them, then they're going to get more sales. Which means more money.

Sad, but true. Unfortunately, Pandora's Box of how to water-down a genre has been well and truly opened now. There's no going back.

I appreciate that games like ARMA are highly specialised and only appeal to a minority of gamers. But with mainstream FPS's, it's gone too far the other way, imo. The constant stream of achievements (and I use that term loosely) is not only tiresome, but quite patronising in a lot of ways.

Not really FPS related, but this is how bad it's getting. Fire up Universe Sandbox for the first time and you get this...

Seriously. WTF? Next we'll be getting achievements in Forza 5, GT6 for simply selecting a circuit and another one for choosing a car. Utterly pointless and a 0.00000012sec thrill for Achievement Wh0res.

D.

 

[Cookie]

I think the achievement things were a good thing when they were introduced.. when they actually rewarded you for playing the game, but now you have to properly go out of your way to get them, or grind for hours

Lame

 

[welshname]

This is why I got out of gaming and when I do occasionally go back, it's 1.6 or CS:S, so much more balanced. Don't enjoy other FPS.

 

[Rasclart]

To start with I thought you meant balance as in falling over

It's all geared towards money now. More achievements/guns to unlock means people will play for longer and if you're still playing when they release more DLC then you're likely to pay for it. People like to feel they've earnt something for the hours they're putting in. It adds competition so you play it more to compete with your friends.

Kill streaks, perks, grenades etc. These all keep the lesser players interested. If they pitch a game at just the hardcore they aren't going to sell as many copies. If BillyBob who only seems to shoot at ankles can feel like he's done okay because he got a kill that was 15ft wide of an enemy but the explosion still got them, then they're going to get more sales. Which means more money.

Also referring to your bit about hitting Mass Market, while annoying sometimes firstly it is a game, no need to cry because it is not Real Life accurate with shot placement. Secondly ignoring the retards, the time I can 'Invest' into a game is pretty small due to work, attention span, other pursuits that occur not on a computer... thus when I play it is nice to have some flexibility etc when playing so as not to be completely destroyed because I cannot put 3 hours + in every day to master the game.

A lot of people spend way too much time over analysing games and balance and all that crap. In all honesty these people could do with getting out more. I think it is pretty sad how angry people get over a game these days, almost losing a grip on reality. If you want one shot one kill and perfect shot placement either join the military or take up hunting....

The girl I am with now, she split with her previous boyfriend because of his gaming habits and the fact he turned round and said playing games makes him happier than being with her. Now that is sad is she a stunning girl with a personality. Just sums up how a lot of geeks are.

 

[Goodj]

If there's a belt-fed machine gun that I can lay down suppressing fire with, I'm happy.

I also die a lot.

 

[Dan@M.A.D]

Also referring to your bit about hitting Mass Market, while annoying sometimes firstly it is a game, no need to cry because it is not Real Life accurate with shot placement. Secondly ignoring the retards, the time I can 'Invest' into a game is pretty small due to work, attention span, other pursuits that occur not on a computer... thus when I play it is nice to have some flexibility etc when playing so as not to be completely destroyed because I cannot put 3 hours + in every day to master the game.

A lot of people spend way too much time over analysing games and balance and all that crap. In all honesty these people could do with getting out more. I think it is pretty sad how angry people get over a game these days, almost losing a grip on reality. If you want one shot one kill and perfect shot placement either join the military or take up hunting....

The girl I am with now, she split with her previous boyfriend because of his gaming habits and the fact he turned round and said playing games makes him happier than being with her. Now that is sad is she a stunning girl with a personality. Just sums up how a lot of geeks are.

Gaming is an addiction, I know ive been there, thanksfully i got out of it after a couple of months of having no life, Piks of the sister (cliosport rules)

 

[Revels]

He said his missus, not his sister.

Although I have pics of both

 

[Rasclart]

Sister?

 

[Darren S]

Also referring to your bit about hitting Mass Market, while annoying sometimes firstly it is a game, no need to cry because it is not Real Life accurate with shot placement. Secondly ignoring the retards, the time I can 'Invest' into a game is pretty small due to work, attention span, other pursuits that occur not on a computer... thus when I play it is nice to have some flexibility etc when playing so as not to be completely destroyed because I cannot put 3 hours + in every day to master the game.

A lot of people spend way too much time over analysing games and balance and all that crap. In all honesty these people could do with getting out more. I think it is pretty sad how angry people get over a game these days, almost losing a grip on reality. If you want one shot one kill and perfect shot placement either join the military or take up hunting....

The girl I am with now, she split with her previous boyfriend because of his gaming habits and the fact he turned round and said playing games makes him happier than being with her. Now that is sad is she a stunning girl with a personality. Just sums up how a lot of geeks are.

Horses for courses m8. I'm in no way obsessed with gaming like some people you hear about - but after 31 years, I'm quite opinionated and vocal about actions or decisions that affect the industry. It's not loosing a 'grip on reality' - it just reflects your passion in something.

I cried at my cousin's funeral yesterday - and that to me was a clear grip on reality. Yet how many grown men do you see cry in the stands when a 90 minute segment of their lives of kicking a ball of leather about - doesn't go their way? I don't see the need to get upset about loosing a football game. I don't even see the need to angry about loosing a football game. But to those fans who follow their team all over the country and beyond - it probably means more to them than their own family and friends. I don't agree with that, but I can understand it.

D.