ABS ESP and SERV lights problem.

[dane0]

Hi
I've had a look about and cannot seem to find a solution to my problem. 2 weeks ago I had a big problem with my clutch gearbox and that's now sorted. the sub frame was removed to get the gearbox out and while doing this the steering column came off and had to be re set in place. since doing this i now have the ESP ABS and SERV lights on. Here's where it gets confusing, I logged on to OBD2 and it has flagged up both rear ABS sensors at fault. Is this a pure coincidence that both sensors failed as soon as this was replaced or am I missing something and done something wrong. There is no fault on the steering angle sensor and no fault on the brake position sensor. Is there anything I could have knocked or damaged to cause both rear sensors to fail simultaneously as I never had this problem before doing this work.
Someone please help me its never ending!

 

[NorthloopCup]

I'd be checking wiring at the abs pump mate. You've potentially caught something if you've got issues on both rear abs sensors.

 

[dane0]

I'd be checking wiring at the abs pump mate. You've potentially caught something if you've got issues on both rear abs sensors.

That's why I was asking but I have no idea at all about the abs system it just seemed strange that it occurred at the same time. I'll look at it Friday and get back to you.

 

[Craig]

I had both mine replaced because the failed and even now the lights pop on every now and then. Very annoying

 

[dane0]

I know I'm quite ocd and it was really annoying me when I had the orange eml on for a lambda sensor now I have 3 bloody orange lights on! Hopefully it gets sorted tomorrow

 

[GrahamS]

Have you unplugged the rear abs sensor loom which runs down the n/s bottom of the car? I know that sounds very obvious but it could have been knocked. The connector is just above the subframe triangle.

Did the steering column get rotated when fitting as they potentially could have put the angle sensor 360 degrees out.

 

[dane0]

Have you unplugged the rear abs sensor loom which runs down the n/s bottom of the car? I know that sounds very obvious but it could have been knocked. The connector is just above the subframe triangle.

Did the steering column get rotated when fitting as they potentially could have put the angle sensor 360 degrees out.

It never got unplugged and to be fair I didn't notice it even there I'll have a look and it's been plugged in and just shows up both rear sensors at fault and nothing to do with steering angle so I just ruled that out do you think it could still be the problem or would it show a fault if the angle sensor was positioned wrong?

 

[GrahamS]

It never got unplugged and to be fair I didn't notice it even there I'll have a look and it's been plugged in and just shows up both rear sensors at fault and nothing to do with steering angle so I just ruled that out do you think it could still be the problem or would it show a fault if the angle sensor was positioned wrong?

Really not to sure but definitely worth a check. It's a bit of a drive for you but I can plug it into clip for you if you want to check what comes up.

 

[dane0]

Wow thanks I appreciate the offer ill see how i get on with it I got a whole week off now so if I can't sort it I might end up with a road trip to you lol

 

[dane0]

Still no idea the loom looks fine by the front subframe and gave it a clean just for peace of mind but still have it lit up. It went out today for about 10 mins (it was off when I turned the car on and got excited) but before long they came back on and can't seem to source the problem but never got long to look as I got a stinking cold that day. Does anyone know of a wiring diagram for the abs system by any chance?

 

[JB21]

Abs pump connection is my bet. It's located on the right of the engine bay directly below the coolant header tank but it hides under the firewall heat shield fabric. Just pull the fabric back and all will be apparent.

 

[dane0]

Thank you very much I'll get on and have a look at that as soon as I can and see where it gets me I'll end up tracing every bloody wire until I find something dodgy looking by the end of the day I hope it doesn't come down to that

 

[GrahamS]

Also, make sure you check the condition of the ABS rings. I took my running gear off at the weekend and noticed a ring was really corroded but not broken. Now have a light occasionally and pedal farts.

 

[loggyboy]

I have had this problem since I did the same subframe drop.
Cruise stopped working too, I put it down to the steering wheel being spun without the rack and putting the wheel angle sensor out, but have reset and replaced it. Anything you find keep us updated as I would like mine sorted too!

 

[dane0]

OK well I have had a whole new set of disks with abs rings put on 2 months ago so they shouldn't be a problem but good idea thanks. My steering angle sensor should throw a fault up if it was that or the brake sensor I assume as they have their own sensors?
The lights have gone out twice now for about 2 mins max randomly but came on randomly and stay on when I reset the car I'm working nights all week this week and next so it's a bit hard to get under it in daylight so I'm hoping to get under at the weekend.
And loggyboy if you have the same problem something must be linked if I get it sorted I'll definitely let you know! Check the loom as mentioned above by the subframe on the passenger side as mine was slightly corroded but it cleaned up well so that may be your problem?

 

[loggyboy]

One thing that did happen to mine was the brake sensor switch/connector got knocked off by the shaft of the spinning column, so I also tried to reset (and replace) that - but that didnt do anything either.

 

[dane0]

One thing that did happen to mine was the brake sensor switch/connector got knocked off by the shaft of the spinning column, so I also tried to reset (and replace) that - but that didnt do anything either.

OK well mine is definitely showing a fault with both rear sensors, I've checked the brake pedal sensor and that seems OK. I believe Saturday I could possibly get a look under mine and literally unplug and check every connection I can find and clean it up if need be. Since doing this I've started to develop a starting problem where when I turn the key and it won't turn Iver, just pure silence. I replaced the earth strap as the old one literally fell apart in my hands. Is it possible at all for this all to be caused by a bad earth as I believe that is what my starting problem is, so possibly the abs sensors are failing due to this too? I have no idea just a thought I had?

 

[loggyboy]

Cant imagine a bad earth strap affecting only 1 part of the elecs inside.

 

[dane0]

Yeah me neither, well I've spent a whole day under the car cleaning the connections unplugged everything I could and re plugged it back in and can't find the problem anywhere! Still got the stupid lights up. They have gone off twice when the car starts but come back on both times after about 30 seconds I'm so lost! Still showing fault on both rear wheels

 

[dane0]

Update - finally got a day where I can have a play with it. Plugged it in and took it for a drive with live data running and it's showing both rear wheel speeds are not moving according to this. Does anyone have a abs wiring diagram I can look at as this is becoming a right headache. All terminals are clean and tight by the rear axle and and the connection block near the front by the lambda sensor seem ok. I can't find any other connection leading up to the abs pump and I'm hoping to see if I can find tool to see if I got any current or resistance on the abs circuit by the rear wheels. It has new 44 tooth abs rings put on in January along with disks and was fine up until this. As soon as I turn on the ignition the fault is lit up with the abs traction and service light. Would this indicate a sensor fault as the car hasn't moved to check the ring yet and already shows a fault? Any help at all would be greatly appreciated I'm hoping someone has had this before and solved it

 

[loggyboy]

Considering we have same issue - as result of the same work being done - I suspect it must have something to do with a loose or damaged connection around the subframe or the steering column.

 

[dane0]

Yeah it's very strange it's got to be a loose connection somewhere. Mine definitely shows both rear sensors not picking anything up as the wheel speed is 0 when moving. check the plug by the lambda sensor that runs to the rear abs sensor as I was told that has been a problem for someone before where the terminals were a bit corroded. I got a week off next week so I'm hoping to get a proper couple of days on this as my work pattern has been all over the place lately

 

[dane0]

Got under it for an hour today both abs sensors are showing a resistance of 0.9ohms roughly and checking the wire they plug into heading up to the abs pump there's no power what so ever. I've checked the fuses in the passenger side door panel and all are ok. I found if I wiggled that connector block I mentioned by the front subframe you can hear some relays clicking on and off in the engine bay when the ignition is on. On a really close inspection the top left white wires pin in the corner felt very soft and getting a torch in there it does actually seem a bit crappy. Looks as if Renault have put a seal where the plug halves join but not a seal on each end where the wires enter. I'd definitely have a look at yours and see if yours is a bit rotten too and see if that's the problem for you. At least I've established I've got no power going down and one less thing as I was hoping not to be replacing both sensors as they look like a nightmare! It's going in the garage Saturday and going to test the voltage coming from the abs unit as close as possible to see if there's power and I'll update you from there.

 

[loggyboy]

Will add that to my list of jobs for weekend!

 

[dane0]

Oh and make note there's a yellow flap on top of the female pins I moved up to pinch them a bit tighter (rear end side) and then that flap doesn't go down properly so you can't put the plug back together and you can't hold it down as it goes inside before you can move it. You'll know what I mean so try not to bend them up

 

[dane0]

We bypassed that multi plug with the lambda sensor at the front and added a bit of wire to make the gap up and it's all working fine now it wasn't even the rotten pins that were the problem it was the clean ones that looked good! If I wiggled it you could hear the relays clicking so maybe try that and see if yours click. If you can get a diagnostic on there and one person spin the wheel and read wheel speeds while the other moves the plug about you should be able to see if it's a bad connection. If so either replace the looms or just bypass the whole lot of abs sensors, I left the lambda sensor and the one on the rear axle still in the loom and they are working fine still, good luck!

 

[JB21]

Woke up to this issue this morning. Car was used Wednesday with no lights and boom this morning I have the ABS, STOP & TC lights on, speedo is working so it's not the fuse. Thing is I have no ABS and my bias is now 50/50 which in dangerous. Checked all connections and can't see anything wrong.

 

[loggyboy]

My bias is fine. Sounds like urs is a specfic abs fault.

 

[JB21]

My bias is fine. Sounds like urs is a specfic abs fault.

So a failed sensor wouldn't cause the ABS to disable?

 

[Craig]

All mine lit up like that. Both my sensors were fooked. Replaced them and now they still pop on every now and then. My drive shaft is fooked too so hopefully when that's Replaced it will sort it. There's always a problem lol

 

[dane0]

Jb21, yes if you have a failed sensor it will disable your abs system and light up on the dash. As far as I'm aware if your abs lights stay on when you turn the ignition it's either a sensor fault or a supply fault (like I had). If it comes on after moving the wheel it's usually the steering angle sensor. If it is off when you turn the ignition on and then comes on when moving this is either a abs ring fault (cracked, got grease or a stone in it or a tooth missing) the rings can be replaced and I believe they are about 10 quid a pair online

 

[JB21]

Jb21, yes if you have a failed sensor it will disable your abs system and light up on the dash. As far as I'm aware if your abs lights stay on when you turn the ignition it's either a sensor fault or a supply fault (like I had). If it comes on after moving the wheel it's usually the steering angle sensor. If it is off when you turn the ignition on and then comes on when moving this is either a abs ring fault (cracked, got grease or a stone in it or a tooth missing) the rings can be replaced and I believe they are about 10 quid a pair online

Thanks mate. The lights come one with the ignition so hopefully it's just a sensor. I'll get it on a diagnostics reader and check for output on each sensor. It's had new rings on the rear and newish on the front which look fine. Being a cup they are only 8mm on the front so I've had to place them on the driveshaft to sit under the sensor best I can which is right at the end wheel side. Needs the cup 16mm rings really.

 

[dane0]

Yeah I got the 16mm rings on the shaft as they can't do any harm as far as I'm aware as long as they are under the sensor. Definitely check that loom I mentioned above its right by the front subframe and the rear lambda sensor goes into it so it's easy to find. Mine looked clean and if I ran diagnostic while spinning the wheel you could see the sensors working then not, but near on impossible to get both working at once. Bypassed it with some wire and worked flawless so I cut them and souldered it and wrapped in shrink wrap then lots of electrical tape to be safe and it's perfect. Check the abs plugs down by the rear axle for power and resistance. The end by the front should have some dc voltage with the ignition on, mine showed 0.01v so I knew mime was a power supply. Both sensors showed resistance (ohm) between 0.7 and 0.95 if that's any help. If you got resistance and no power check that plug I'm 99% sure it will be that mine looked fine and the pins for the lambda was green and many but they worked fine while the shiny good pins were the dodgy ones so don't rule it out cos it looks ok. If the resistance is different between the sensors are a lot lower than 0.7 ohms I'd look at getting the sensor replaced. Any questions just ask and I'll try help as I must have spent about 5 days under mine before checking the power supply and it's not worth the stress over an abs fault

 

[loggyboy]

So a failed sensor wouldn't cause the ABS to disable?

Yes, but not the bias.

 

[Godsense]

Woke up to this issue this morning. Car was used Wednesday with no lights and boom this morning I have the ABS, STOP & TC lights on, speedo is working so it's not the fuse. Thing is I have no ABS and my bias is now 50/50 which in dangerous. Checked all connections and can't see anything wrong.

The exact same happened to me. I've tried the brake sensor reset and different adjustments but no luck. Also OBD not throwing up anything.
Did have a cv boot strap missing but abs ring looks ok

 

[dane0]

A normal old won't show up abs faults unfortunately you'll need a proper body scanner. Check the rings for any dirt or grease firstly especially the one you had a problem with the boot as it only needs to clog in one recess between teeth, it could just be a coincidence and could be a different wheel altogether. There could also be grease on the sensor itself and not the ring? Or a dud sensor finally packed up? I hope you don't have as many problems as I did with mine lol its worth it on a proper diagnostic tool and spin each wheel while running live data and then you know which corner you got problems. Is it intermittent or on constantly? And dies it come on when you put ignition on or once you move the wheel, or move the car?

 

[Godsense]

I did give that side a good clean. Might have another look. It's been on constantly for about 2 weeks, comes on with the ignition. I hope not too mate. Think I will replace brake sensor and recheck all the abs rings / sensors then get it plugged in fif that hasn't sorted it. Cheers

 

[dane0]

OK usually if the dash lights come on without moving it's generally a sensor fault of some kind as this gets found on its self check when you key on. I had the problem before when you push the brake pedal down it would slightly light the fog light icon on the dash up, where this was a loose connection on one of the rear lights this flagged up the abs fault as I assume it didn't recognise the brake light properly. From reading a lot the brake pedal sensor seems a good place to start if you haven't an idea yet of what it may be?

 

[Godsense]

Thanks for your help resolving this. Was off side sensor.
Got one off eBay but man it was a bugger to remove. Watch out for anyone else would be the sensor doesn't come with a replacement nut. Which isn't ideal!

 

[dane0]

Thanks for your help resolving this. Was off side sensor.
Got one off eBay but man it was a bugger to remove. Watch out for anyone else would be the sensor doesn't come with a replacement nut. Which isn't ideal!

Definitely not considering its pretty much rust welded shut and crumbles before getting the hammer out to remove the old sensor, but glad your sorted buddy it's such an annoying thing