ABS removal (sorry another thread)

[fa57 son]

Guys,

Got a 182 track car and for various reasons want to remove the ABS and traction control.

for abs is it as simple as a 172 cup master cylinder and running new brake lines with bias valve?

Traction control perminate removal?

 

[ben_g40]

I'm in the process of removing my 172 (not cup) abs setup. Binned the pump and all the steel brake lines. It's got a 2 port master cylinder which I was going to tee off for the front. Then run one brake line through the car and then split for the rear.

 

[fa57 son]

Was you going to put a bias valve in the middle of route to rear?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Iirc a normal bias valve only drops the rear effort to around 20-25% minimum so you'll be locking the rears up under heavy braking. Your as well just running the cup bias valve. You'll also need to re program the abs via clip.

 

[Sam@NP]

If you want a proper bias valve you need a peddle box and balance bar. Not cheap but it's the best setup to have.

 

[AlexW]

You'll also need to re program the abs via clip.

Is this actually possible though, as I believe Dan @ SJM couldn't on Cub's car.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Is this actually possible though, as I believe Dan @ SJM couldn't on Cub's car.

Ah ok! I thought they'd done it on cubs car tbh! May be a case of leave the abs pump unplugged then tbh as it can't have any effect on the braking system.

 

[AlexW]

Ah ok! I thought they'd done it on cubs car tbh! May be a case of leave the abs pump unplugged then tbh as it can't have any effect on the braking system.

With it unplugged you'll get the light still, and limited Bias, makes them bloody horrible!

The best thing to do is fit Cup dials, once you've removed the ABS.

 

[Cub.]

@NorthloopCup - Alex is right bud, we couldn't do it on mine for some reason. There basically isn't a module on CLiP that enables you to do it I believe.

OP - I have swapped mine to a Cup setup (bought Cup setup including brake lines), you need to delete everything related to the ABS and make sure you remove it (including pump, sensor rings and loom) else they can technically fail it on the MOT. It will throw the ABS light on, so either swap to some Cup dials or remove the bulb / cover the light by removing the dash.

Also, because you have swapped to a Cup setup, it may fail the MOT for insufficient braking at the rear. This is a well known Cup 'issue' and VOSA have issued an MOT service note to cover it. Problem is, your VIN (like mine) will be for an non-cup and so the MOT'er will need to be made aware you have done the swap else they can fail it for insufficient braking even being aware of the VOSA service note. The reason being, VOSA state on the service note the VIN numbers for Cups.

Hope that makes sense, PM me if you need to. Basically, I explained to the MOT'er what I had done, printed off the email that is on here about Track Cars being modified to allow removal of standard fitted parts, and printed the VOSA service note on Cup braking. Gave it all to the MOT'er beforehand and it passed fine.

Of course if it is a track car that is towed, you don't have to worry as much, although come resale you may struggle. Sourcing a cup setup and fitting it is by far the cheapest, and best (in terms of hassle factor) way to remove the ABS. It will not allow you to adjust the bias though, so depends how much you want to set the braking up on your car to exactly your requirements.

 

[fa57 son]

Very good post there thanks for that Cub.

 

[NorthloopCup]

With it unplugged you'll get the light still, and limited Bias, makes them bloody horrible!

The best thing to do is fit Cup dials, once you've removed the ABS.

Apologies my post was misleading. I was meaning leave it unplugged after you've swapped to the cup setup, so this would obviously not knock the brake bias to 50/50. To overcome the dashlight issue is simple - fold some black tape in half, strip the clocks and slide it under the fascia. If you fit cup clocks the light will still work as all the clocks are the same. The cup just had a blue trim.

 

[NorthloopCup]

@NorthloopCup - Alex is right bud, we couldn't do it on mine for some reason. There basically isn't a module on CLiP that enables you to do it I believe.

OP - I have swapped mine to a Cup setup (bought Cup setup including brake lines), you need to delete everything related to the ABS and make sure you remove it (including pump, sensor rings and loom) else they can technically fail it on the MOT. It will throw the ABS light on, so either swap to some Cup dials or remove the bulb / cover the light by removing the dash.

Also, because you have swapped to a Cup setup, it may fail the MOT for insufficient braking at the rear. This is a well known Cup 'issue' and VOSA have issued an MOT service note to cover it. Problem is, your VIN (like mine) will be for an non-cup and so the MOT'er will need to be made aware you have done the swap else they can fail it for insufficient braking even being aware of the VOSA service note. The reason being, VOSA state on the service note the VIN numbers for Cups.

Hope that makes sense, PM me if you need to. Basically, I explained to the MOT'er what I had done, printed off the email that is on here about Track Cars being modified to allow removal of standard fitted parts, and printed the VOSA service note on Cup braking. Gave it all to the MOT'er beforehand and it passed fine.

Of course if it is a track car that is towed, you don't have to worry as much, although come resale you may struggle. Sourcing a cup setup and fitting it is by far the cheapest, and best (in terms of hassle factor) way to remove the ABS. It will not allow you to adjust the bias though, so depends how much you want to set the braking up on your car to exactly your requirements.

God knows where I got it from then that you'd reprogrammed it oli! Lol! With regards the track car and mot issue it's actually quite a simple one. IF the car has been modified for track use there has been a directive issued by VOSA that basically says test it as presented. It also states that the removal of abs and airbags is acceptable in the case of a track car. Trust me, I know this as my mot man is straight and it's by the book. How else would I get an mot on my cup that's had extensive modifications purely aimed at track work. For those of you that know my car you'll understand this. not normal dan will happily confirm this also.

 

[AlexW]

Apologies my post was misleading. I was meaning leave it unplugged after you've swapped to the cup setup, so this would obviously not knock the brake bias to 50/50. To overcome the dashlight issue is simple - fold some black tape in half, strip the clocks and slide it under the fascia. If you fit cup clocks the light will still work as all the clocks are the same. The cup just had a blue trim.

Ah yes I understand what you meant now. Cup dials don't cause the light to come on, thats how Cub got round his. Its programming in the dash.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Ah yes I understand what you meant now. Cup dials don't cause the light to come on, thats how Cub got round his. Its programming in the dash.

Is it really!! Hmmm now that means that the replacement 'cup' dials I fitted for someone were normal 1*2 ones with just the cup blue trim!! Lol

 

[not normal dan]

Ah yes I understand what you meant now. Cup dials don't cause the light to come on, thats how Cub got round his. Its programming in the dash.

I was almost certain the dials were identical across the range

 

[AlexW]

Cub. It solved yours did it not?

I do fancy proving it myself (I have some cup dials I can try) too. It doesn't make sense for it to be any other way.

 

[Cub.]

I haven't put mine in yet, as I just covered the light for the MOT.
Dan@SJM seemed to think cup dials would solve it though, so can offer some more advice.

 

[Dan@SJM]

Yeh the cup dials don't have the abs light.

 

[not normal dan]

Yeh the cup dials don't have the abs light.

Fair enough, handy one to know I guess

 

[Cub.]

fa57 son and for others who read this thread in future, it is worth noting, if you have a non-speedo drive gearbox (and you remove the ABS fully including sensors, to pass the MOT) you need to get the dials reprogrammed in Clip by someone who is very good with Clip (Dan at SJM or MickPM) else you're speedo won't work. Or fit a speedo drive gearbox.

Ph1's and early 172 FF 02 plate cars came with speedo drive boxes like the cup (mine did) so removing the ABS sensors / rings caused no problems on mine.

 

[Edges]

@fa57 son and for others who read this thread in future, it is worth noting, if you have a non-speedo drive gearbox (and you remove the ABS fully including sensors, to pass the MOT) you need to get the dials reprogrammed in Clip by someone who is very good with Clip (Dan at SJM or MickPM) else you're speedo won't work. Or fit a speedo drive gearbox.

Ph1's and early 172 FF 02 plate cars came with speedo drive boxes like the cup (mine did) so removing the ABS sensors / rings caused no problems on mine.

If you remove all the rings, sensors, and pump.. Then even if you re program the clocks, what can they get a speed from?

 

[Cub.]

Sorry, worded wrong - you'd need a speedo drive box and use clip to reprogramme to read off that, I'd imagine. But it would need loom mods aswell. Basically, if you do remove ABS and a garage insists you remove the sensors / rings then go somewhere else for your MoT lol!

 

[AlexW]

Even actual Cups still have the ABS rings, just remove 3 sensors and you'd be fine I imagine. Early Corsa C's with no ABS have just the sensor on the passenger front wheel, that the speed comes from.

 

[fa57 son]

so started the removal. have got to the ABS pump/block was going to remove this but I notice all the cabled seem to plug into this. if I wanted to keep speedo working do I have to leave the whole block in or is it possible to take it apart to remove everything accept the plugs. as a side thought is it possible to wire it so 1 abs sensor stays in and wires direct to the speed pulse?

 

[Dan@SJM]

You need to leave the block in with all the sensors connected.

 

[Jb17253]

I am just building a track car I wanted to remove abs but if I unplug the pump car will not start,what do I need to successfully remove the whole system. I have a cup master cylinder pipes and a manual bais.
Cheers