advice on getting 200bhp per ton from 172

[TooneySonic]

to give you an idea after matched inlets, decat, ITG filter, schrick cams and remap i came away 20bhp peak better off....


and £1500 worse off......

 

[clio-172-Turbo]

Save some Money and Turbocharge The Car!!!!

 

[Andyman]

From my experience i think the worst thing you can do with a Sport Clio is get hung up on wanting a particular end result figure.

 

[rich_1989]

tbh i agree, i want this figure without loosing any interor, etc, not too fussed about the weight, i jus want to be on 200 bhp without TB's without turbos or blowers. going to see cams, matched inlets, gasflowing, decat, full stainless system, remap, pannel filter, etc. want it standard inside though, it pissed me off to the max when my attempt to wire up a mint sound system to the standard HU failed and i had to rip it out and loose my display, my auto changer and my media stalk! id cry if i didnt have th climate control and other bits so i do agree, however getting 200 hp per ton without shredding wieght will be talking big cash really, like full engine rework dry sump etc.

 

[Riley!]

strip the biatch!

 

[Riley!]

it pissed me off to the max when my attempt to wire up a mint sound system to the standard HU failed and i had to rip it out and loose my display, my auto changer and my media stalk!

get a headunit that accepts the adaptor to keep them working

 

[keithjames84@gmail.c]

to give you an idea after matched inlets, decat, ITG filter, schrick cams and remap i came away 20bhp peak better off....


and £1500 worse off......

ouch that is a fair wack for 20bhp, more inportantly how does the car feel with the extra 20bhp ?

 

[rich_1989]

get a headunit that accepts the adaptor to keep them working

did do matey, i kno my ICE but didnt wanna loose the standard HU so wired the sub threw a LPF adpater spliced in from the rear speakers but the HU didnt have a dedicated bass output so it tryed to filter though the mid range and jus sounded like someone was farting in the boot!

 

[Andyman]

If you want to register a genuine 200bhp you really have to go down the TB, Turbo or Supercharger route.

Cams and the usual bolt on's on a single TB set up is just a expensive struggle if your target is 200 bhp. 190 at the very very max is about as realistic as its gonna get - on the road however, different ball game but for the pub figures it wont look impressive

 

[rich_1989]

If you want to register a genuine 200bhp you really have to go down the TB, Turbo or Supercharger route.

Cams and the usual bolt on's on a single TB set up is just a expensive struggle if your target is 200 bhp. 190 at the very very max is about as realistic as its gonna get - on the road however, different ball game but for the pub figures it wont look impressive

different ball game, i like the sound of that!

 

[TooneySonic]

ouch that is a fair wack for 20bhp, more inportantly how does the car feel with the extra 20bhp ?

unfortunately cant really comment as did the mods in stages > remap > decat, filter, matched inlets > cams, remap

yep i know thats two remaps, dont flame me i just caught the bug afterwards!!!

car does pull right to the redline @ 7800 now though, not alot below 3k though

 

[Icarus]

If you want to register a genuine 200bhp you really have to go down the TB, Turbo or Supercharger route.

Not neccesarily - there is always the option of fabricated ally plenum setup that resolves most of the issues the standard one has without resulting to to ITB's and aftermarket management. Okay it won't get you all the gains you can get from ITB's but it'll get you over 200bhp with some cams.

Cheers
M

 

[rich_1989]

Not neccesarily - there is always the option of fabricated ally plenum setup that resolves most of the issues the standard one has without resulting to to ITB's and aftermarket management. Okay it won't get you all the gains you can get from ITB's but it'll get you over 200bhp with some cams.

Cheers
M

im listening?

 

[Bazzon]

im listening?

Dont let matts extensive knowledge come out you soon will be really confused :rasp:

 

[TooneySonic]

yep, you will get bamboozled

isn't there somebody on here that is fabricating such a setup?

 

[mattjk]

Dunlop was toying with the idea, but I think he got banned lol..

 

[maupineda]

Good idea to keep the standard ECU IMHO, you maintain OBD2, CAN, DBW Throttle and as a result easy diagnostics for most garages, good cold start etc. etc. Standard ECU is easily capable of running a 200bhp F4R 730.

Viper type things aren't worth bothering with. Standard airbox with an ITG or similar panel filter in it or an ITG AB65 Airbox.

4-2-1 manifold ala 182 will improve midrange torque at the expense of top end power in my experience, as such I'd rule this out and keep your 4-1 172 manifold.

The biggest areas for gains are the inlet manifold (which is rubbish) and the cam profiles. With matched inlets and CAT428's you can see IRO 190bhp, maybe a touch over. Finding 10bhp more than that though with the standard inlet manifold and you'll be struggling.

Ben at AW has a great setup on the way that is being prototyped on my Cup and a Cup race car in the UAE, it maintains the standard DBW throttle butterfly and standard ECU, is a straight bolt on and with 428's will see 100bhp/tonne easily.

The other option is to start dumping bits of interior. I quite like having a road car though rather than a race car on the road. However chucking the rear seats out only takes 5 mins although it doesn't save a great deal of weight.

If you have a Cup then happy days, if not consider junking your air-con and going to a cup alternator setup. That'll save a fair bit of weight and remove the need for a 170 quid belt and tensioner kit everytime you need to change the aux belt.

Cheers
M

Tell us more about the setup you are testing please

 

[Tullyvernon]

pretty please!

 

[keithjames84@gmail.c]

Yeah would be intresting to hear more on this intakfabricated ally plenum setup, sounds intresting !

Though i think i have come to the conclusion that, if i am to modify my car to get the 190 -200bhp ill be better off saving my money and doing it all at once with itb's. Plus from seeing the rr graphs get an increase in torque over the rev range will make it a more drivable car then if you got 190 - 200bhp from playing with cams, ilet matchings intake kits etc where it will prob end up very peaky.
I think i would prefer to not get to the magic figure of 200bhp but have a healthy increase in low end torque as well as a increase in power.

 

[Icarus]

From looking at whats done so far it'll provide 80-85% of the benefit of ITB's whilst maintaining the DBW throttle body and standard ECU so you still retain traction control, cruise control, good cold start, cold start emissions compliance (assuming standard cam profile), anti-stall strategy etc. etc.

Based on whats been done on mini-valvers K4M which uses a similar design he had a totaly flat torque curve so concerns about driveability should be minimal.

The design for the 1*2 will be a CNC inlet manifold with air horns contained within the plenum, air mass metering to the plenum will be via the standard DBW throttle body, albeit relocated. Simple cone filter or sealed airbox on the end of the throttle body will cover induction/filtration needs as it will be placed diretly behind the headlight with a straight path from filter/airbox to throtttle body.

I won't make any guesses at power/torque increase until its run on a car - however I am very excited to see the results and its quite rare I get excited about bits of car these days ;-) It resolves all the issues with the standard inlet manifold and whilst obviously not being able to match a port throttle/ITB setup due to only being a single throttle butterfly design it does allow you to keep all standard features of the car and gets you most of the way towards an ITB setup in terms of power at a pretty reasonable price (as you retain the standard ECU, wiring loom etc.).

They'll be a seperate thread started with pics and initial results once the prototype/s are complete.

Cheers
M

 

[Andyman]

Not neccesarily - there is always the option of fabricated ally plenum setup that resolves most of the issues the standard one has without resulting to to ITB's and aftermarket management. Okay it won't get you all the gains you can get from ITB's but it'll get you over 200bhp with some cams.

Cheers
M

I mean on the standard cast set up tho.

In the early days it was banded about that all you needed was cams, inlet, IK, zorst, decat and a map would get you 200 bhp. Some companys even promoted it!

Truth is different

 

[BenR]

Very much so!

However as more people competed for business it seemed a each would add 5bhp ontop of the last persons claims.

 

[Icarus]

Unless you are willing to chuck huge money into the engine to find power because you absolutely have to run the standard inlet manifold setup then you won't find more than 95bhp/litre. Cams, matched inlet, suitable exhaust, remap etc. will get you circa 190bhp on a healthy engine.

Who was it who was claiming 205bhp on the standad inlet a couple of years back? That was comedy gold ;-)

Cheers
M

 

[BenR]

I had 200.9 on a bosch RR with a full blueprint, headwork, 428's, inlets, maxogen etc etc etc.........but paul said the map was crap so could of maybe made more :S.

 

[coatesy]

buy a 172 cup and spend 3k on itbs...

 

[Icarus]

I had 200.9 on a bosch RR with a full blueprint, headwork, 428's, inlets, maxogen etc etc etc.........but paul said the map was crap so could of maybe made more :S.

Yes but your headwork on your engine build vs the company in questions headwork with standard seats on a standard bottom end ............. I'll say no more ;-)

Cheers
M

 

[BenR]

What?
You mean this

vs this?

 

[Lagerlout]

There's a difference? :s

 

[Gasket]

The top one must be better as its more shiny.