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Advice please. Major hesitation/unresponsive throttle + more!



  Iceberg PH1 172
Hi all, having spent the last hour or so reading this subsection, I've decided to post a help request.

2002 Ph2 172
171k
Lights on dash are currently. Serv, and toxic fume light (decat related?)
Airbag light. ( doubt this is related to my issue :))


Recent parts.
New TDC (blue plug)
New 4 X NGK plugs
New 4 X Plug leads

Mods
K&N panel in original air box
Decat (both lambda plugged in)
Cat back


Symptoms

On start.
Idle starts high at 2K rpm, drops to 1200 or so after a few seconds. Drops further after a minute to slightly lower usually.

Engage first, pull off, sometimes it will move off as normal, sometimes it will severely hesitate.

I literally have to stamp stamp stamp the accelerator to get enough revs to pull off ( usually about 3k at this point from the angry stamping. )

Once I've got the car moving I can only use a very tiny amount of throttle (5 to 10% roughly, before it begins to drop power and bog down/jerk.

It's got steadily worse over the last month.
It was driving ok, with a slight hesitation around 2k when driving at town speed. Pushing a touch harder on pedal seemed to correct it at this point.

Driving at town speed now results in me having to shift down a gear when it starts to struggle, to raise the revs another 500rpm etc and gain more engine control back.

It's basically bloody dangerous to drive.
It Will decide to s**t its pants when leaving a junction etc and leave me stranded for 5 seconds or more in the middle of the road.


Has anyone experienced the same on their ownership.?

I should also add, this isn't a cold engine type thing, it happens when car is upto temperarure.

Other times I've noticed a lack of power at motorway speed. Slow gain in rpm. Almost feels like the engines gone 'heavy', like suddenly the crank has been replaced with something 10 times it's weight

Very strange explanation I'm.sure but the most accurate way to describe that particular issue at motorway speed.
 

Mr Trebus

Formerly known as Pot ltd Che
ClioSport Moderator
  Whichever has fuel
Before you throw parts at it left right and centre, get it plugged in to a proper Clip machine.

where are you located? We can point you in the right direction.

my money is on injectors and/or Lamda.
 
  Iceberg PH1 172
Located in Notts, m1 j27, I'm aware I have Diamond Motors not to far away but after losing my job first week of dec, im not exactly flush with cash atm. 😐
 
Last edited:

SteveC_1879

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182
Mine had the same, it was lambda sensor 1. Don’t piss about with cheap ones, it has to be a Bosch one to guarantee a fix. Injectors can also cause those issues too
 
  Iceberg PH1 172
Thanks for the response Steve.
And Daniel also


I unplugged the pre cat lambda earlier today to see if it made any difference and took it for a short circular run.
I read somewhere, probably here, that doing this can force the ECU to run on present values for the lambda.(hopefully better values than before)

Made bugger all difference really, maybe worse than before...

I'm gonna try unplugging the injectors while idling tomorrow.
See how it responds.

I'm by no means an engine expert, but I've been reading this forum.for the best part of 10 years or more I guess. Something must have sunk in somewhere 🤣

But as always, I stilll need a few logical minds to probe now and again 😎
 

Mr Trebus

Formerly known as Pot ltd Che
ClioSport Moderator
  Whichever has fuel
When you did the plugs and the leads, did you do the coil pack too?
 
  Iceberg PH1 172
No mate. It's still on the coilpack it came with. Leads were marked as clio 182 55k when I removed them, and didn't order pack to keep costs lower.

Plugs are genuine NGK
Leads are from SDL, OEM or better and look same thickness.

I try to not to buy cheapest s**t I can find.
 
  Iceberg PH1 172
So had a local Facebook guy out today to code read the car.

Lambda 1 & 2
Lambda 1 Heater Circuit

Leads me to believe pre cat lambda has packed up.

Decat might have killed it?
 

SteveC_1879

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182
So had a local Facebook guy out today to code read the car.

Lambda 1 & 2
Lambda 1 Heater Circuit

Leads me to believe pre cat lambda has packed up.

Decat might have killed it?

if lambda 1 is throwing those codes it’s knackered. Replace it with a Bosch one and it’ll be fine.

The 2nd sensor is really just measuring how well the cat is working and shouldn’t make any real difference to how it runs.
 
  Iceberg PH1 172
20220109_125504.jpg


Looks like heres my problem.. ☹
Broken wire to plug on loom side.
 
  Iceberg PH1 172
Just a little update.
I repaired this broken connection earlier by bypassing the plug and soldering in a length of wire. It's definitely a bodge as I ended up soldering with a lighter, as wasn't at home with my iron.

Took it out for a short local 2 mile or so run afterwards. Definitely felt an improvement but still some hesistancy although 50% better at this point.

Gave it a quick boot hru 2nd and it's back to missfiring again. I bet i managed to disconnect my bodge. 🤣
 
  Iceberg PH1 172
New lambda fitted today and still getting the same fault.
Have had the historic codes read with a snap on reader, injector 2 and 3 stored faults.

Cleared all and none came back while at the garage.

So time to look at injectors and maybe check the pump and tank.
 

jameswrx

ClioSport Club Member
Get genuine magnetti injectors, the cheap ones will not work & will cause you to keep chasing the fault (as you think you’ve ‘fixed’ the injectors)
 

SteveC_1879

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182
New lambda fitted today and still getting the same fault.
Have had the historic codes read with a snap on reader, injector 2 and 3 stored faults.

Cleared all and none came back while at the garage.

So time to look at injectors and maybe check the pump and tank.

I’ve got a rail with injectors you can have if you want. Been about 4 years since they were on the car and they were fine when they came off so at least 2 of them must be ok!
 
  Iceberg PH1 172
Cheap new coilpack fitted today , VOLT brand, been sat in my shed from when i had my ph1 in 2020.

No change.

Definitely noticed today it seems to struggle more when car level changes .

Uphill/ down hill/ turning a corner.

Surely terrain level change wouldn't cause injector faults.

Fuel pump?

Also gave it a boot full in anger thru first and second, massive crack/bang from underneath car. Cut out. Wouldn't start for 5 minutes.

Beginning to lose hope with this damn thing
 

hopgop1

ClioSport Club Member
Do you have any history of the injectors being changed, or have you stuck a multimeter on them to measure the resistance?
14ohms is where they should be from memory if they're working ok.
 
  Iceberg PH1 172
None whats so ever, I haven't checked them on a volt meter yet. Assuming just unplug and check restistance across the pins?
I'll do it tomorrow on a cold engine.
 

hopgop1

ClioSport Club Member
Yeah simple as that, should be able to get to all 4 connectors with just the fuel rail guard off, even if it is a bit fiddly. I noticed a huge difference in mine when I changed all 4 for new genuine, Mine weren't too far off 14ohms either, although I did have 1 non-genuine injector mixed in with 3 old ones.
 
  Iceberg PH1 172
Can i ask, what is most likely to cause the issues im having terrain level wise?

It definitely happens on gradient change more than flat road.
(Using part throttle and granny driving to gain speed. Won't really rev past 4k unless I hammer it off a fresh key start.)

Fuel pump?
 


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