After track car, considering Clio - coming from VX220

[Boombang]

Hi everyone,

just joined up as considering a Clio for my next car.

Want to do a trackday a month for the next couple of years, been struggling with what to buy and think Clio might be solution.

I can't be bothered with having 2 or 3 cars again, so whatever I buy must do it all - a short commute, the odd weekend blast and then still perform on track. Realise it will be a compromise, but then most things are. Have done an all out car and quite frankly it was terrible unless you were on a smooth circuit going at 10/10ths

Not after anything too old (done the whole Pug thing - few 205s, 309s, Mi16s etc) and don't want it to be a money pit.

Just recently sold off my VX220 (03 n/a) and in process of selling off my 205 rallycar shell. Aware that most things I could buy will feel slow, but there is a hell of a lot more to driving than being seriously quick.

Ideally want something that's already fairly sorted as a car, decent suspension and healthy engine/box/drivetrain. The rest I can do as and when I get time.

Sitting on cash at the moment but till the 205 shell goes not buying anything else (unless something perfect apppears!).

Also considering a Porsche 944/968 as a wildcard option, or buying an Astra VXR and running it as a standard car.

Any pointers or help would be appreciated, going to have a browse and see what info I can glean.

 

[swordjo]

Pick up a cheap Ph1 172 and have a search on here, lots and lots of info already on the site and track days etc. Stump up £10 to become a member and there is alot more info.

 

[keo]

Hi mate i had a VX220T i loved it but was short lived unfornetly, not to pretty when you go through a wall lol. I have got a trophy now and i can say its brilliant, its pratical and comfatable compared to the VXT no where near as fast but still fun and handles realy well. Still a bit special with there not being many about and i like how it is stealthy compared to the VXT only people who are into cars pay it much attention, where i didnt like the attention the VX got (sometimes lol)

 

[MarkCup]

I bought my 172 Cup new in December 03, put 120k on it in 5 years with countless trackdays and sprints, and now it's retired and just gets a loving stroke and/or a beasting/trackday every now and then.

All on standard suspension but with some minor brake mods and basic weight reduction.

40mpg on the commute, ability to humble (badly driven) supercars on track.

Sounds like that could do you? Pick up a nice low-miler and you're done.

 

[Boombang]

Sounds good, and TBH very much like my old 106 Gti I bought about 8 years ago.

That ended up doing everything including 100 odd track days, only got sold on to get something more focused for the circuit (which turned out mighty expensive hobby!).

Having done some reading, I'm split between going for a later car with climate & electric everything (outstanding spec on the Clio 182 for a "cheap" small car) OR as said above go for older 172 and just drive it.

I'm not worried about having to do maintenance, but really want to stay away from major work - having done it for a living a few years back, I'd much rather have an easy life.

 

[Rob]

A certain member on here has a very tasty Mk2 Ph1 172 for sale, its already pretty damn sorted for track, but still useable iirc.

The car has had some serious money spent on suspension etc so its slightly more than most ph1's but I think it'd be worth it if you were looking at adding such upgrades anyways....

(hope he doesnt mind)

Quick Spec:

KW V2 coilovers. Adjustable damping, fantastic setup. Great for road and track, approx 6months old (supplied and fitted by BTM). (Approx £1000+fitting/setup)

Whiteline adjustable ARB. http://www.performancetuner.co.uk/si...uspension.aspx
"It turned a dynamically competent car into a scalpel-sharp front-driver with nothing more than a 20 minute bolt-on modification." (Approx £150)

Yozzasport race exhaust, cat-back. Under 6months old. Sounds fantastic, very lightweight, track friendly. (Approx £450 + fitting)

Brembo HC discs, braided hoses, new ferodo ds2500 pads.

Team dynamics pro race 2 wheels. No kerbing. Hankook RS2 tyres, approx 4mm tread all round.

Momo reclining buckets. Having owned Recaro Trendlines, Cobra Daytona's, can safely say these are the most supportive reclining sports seat I've used. The drivers side vibration washer has been removed to give an even lower driving position. There is some wear on the drivers side fabric. (pics to follow)

Momo race wheel. 320mm from memory, excellent wheel, massively better than standard (standard wheel + airbag included in sale).

Ph2 172 rear lights.

Front xenon conversion, 8000k. Massive upgrade from standard, and looks OEM.

Espace V6 airbox + ITG filter + samco pipe.

RS Tuner remap (RS tuner included in sale)

Carbon Fibre front splitter (KTEC)

Alpine Ipod stereo, with steering control adaptors.

As for the maintainance side, its just had a new clutch, cambelt has got another 2 years in it, relatively new brakes etc...
Oh and welcome to CS

 

[ForceIndia]

Thats exactly what I wanted from my car (the one Robbos kindly mentioned). Useable every day ( I do a lot of miles! ) but still great for b-roads/track.

That's why I still have full interior, bluetooth, all sound deadening etc, suspension that's compliant for road use but easily adjustable for track etc.

The 1*2's are excellent for that purpose imo. Only thing that put me off a 172 cup is the lack of ac (I'm a sweaty poof, and the ph1 weighs pretty much the same as the cup despite keeping ac) and the lack of abs on the cup (again, call me a poof but I think it's a useful safety aid on road).

 

[Naith]

yours is still very comfortable too warren, which shocked me.

sorry to sound like a salesman but it is a peach, considered taking a loan to have the thing myself!

 

[Weeman]

Needs a cage or at least a half cage for track imo.

If it was my money, I'd be finding one of these.

 

[ForceIndia]

I agree that a cage would be ideal for a track car, but for me it would lose too much as a daily driver to go that far.

 

[Weeman]

Half cage then. If you have seats and harnesses, its a must unless you fancy propping the roof up with your head it it rolls.

You look like a hero when you crawl out of a full cage car in the petrol station forecourt LOL

 

[ForceIndia]

Half cage then. If you have seats and harnesses, its a must unless you fancy propping the roof up with your head it it rolls.

You look like a hero when you crawl out of a full cage car in the petrol station forecourt LOL

I've never run harnesses because I don't have a cage. CG lock, that's all.

I agree completely, no harnesses without a cage.

 

[Boombang]

Did spot this car on a quick browse.

Myself I'd either do all or nothing (standard or cage, buckets, harnesses). Spent a lot of time in and around motorsport and track events and value my life too much to go in half arsed.

When it says "Adjustable damping" are there any more details? spring poundage, if fully adjustable or rebound only, if on spherical topmounts etc.

Be nice too if the car came with original parts, but no mention in advert - finally lack of SH would be a downer.

Don't mean this as a dig against car or owner of course, got to realise that everyone is different & some people would rather pay more for things like SH, a modded car but with original parts etc.

If it was local would probably be inclined to have a look, sounds like a decent deal for the right person, but maybe not me. If price was negotiable, perhaps would be worth a look but doesn't sound that way.

RE the 968 club sport - yup would be nice and well within what I *could* spend. I'd rather get something cheaper and put rest towards actually doing track days.

I've learnt the hard way that you don't need XXXbhp, rwd or even anything that quick to have a laugh.

 

[ForceIndia]

Comes with original suspension and steering wheel. Tbh I'm 50/50 on selling it. If it goes for close to asking before the ATrader ad runs out, cool. If not it's staying.

http://www.kw-suspension.co.uk/variant-2.htm

 

[Boombang]

Ta for that.

I think I'll give it a miss for now though, would rather buy one with history and then build it as I'd like or go for something completely sorted.

 

[d6n]

i'm the same as you mate, except im coming from a Corsa VXR.

I was thinking about going the full on track route but i don't do and don't intend to do that many to warrant.

i've been looking at ph2 172's with the extras!

and then an exhaust, coliovers, light weight alloys, and decent brakes will do it for me!

 

[Boombang]

Any reason you've changed from the Corsa?

Have driven them a few times now & thought they were absolutely cracking little cars. Thanks to the Vauxhall VXR trackdays (doing my 4th this year) I've done Donnington and Brands (twice), and of the whole VXR range felt they were the most useable and entertaining - although could handle a little more power.

 

[d6n]

Any reason you've changed from the Corsa?

Have driven them a few times now & thought they were absolutely cracking little cars. Thanks to the Vauxhall VXR trackdays (doing my 4th this year) I've done Donnington and Brands (twice), and of the whole VXR range felt they were the most useable and entertaining - although could handle a little more power.

mine is 240bhp, very fast little car, sounds amazing!

only selling to fund my first house mate!

i have been considering loads of cars but i think for sub 4k and less that 10years old are can't find a better all rounder

 

[Boombang]

Few days of searching and plenty about, just have to wade through endless examples to find what I'm after.

Seems like a few nice cars with FSH, lowish miles, good nick about - these are on sale for what in my opinion is slightly OTT money for a car almost 10 years old.
Then the remainder appear to be untastefully (and for me unnecessarily) modded, with no SH and plenty of damage.

No after a show winner, but being a buyer feel I have every right to be fussy.

Don't want anything that's been covered in glue and driven through Halfords, not keen on something that's driven round the earth 20 times, and can't understand how cars end up with no service history. I've maintained all my cars myself (as an ex-motorsport mechanic I would do!) but have always kept the previous history and an ongoing record of anything I do - no excuse IMHO for not doing so!

 

[joebristolgym]

I had a VX220 a while back, and while it was in for MOT went on a track day with a mate who had a CLio 172 cup - we shared driving on that day and it was a fun car on track, and we passed a lot of 'quicker' cars - elises/vx220/E36 M3's etc etc, albeit I suspect they weren't being driven to their full capabilities. The Clio was better through the faster corners, but I found it very frustrating managing the wheelspin coming out of the hairpin/other tight corner - it just wanted to spin the inside wheel up all the time.

Guess that's the problem with a fairly powerful front wheel drive car with no LSD.

With a bit of money thrown at the Clio it's very capable on track and fun. Probably not a huge amount quicker then the 106 Gti you had though - I had a Saxo Vts before the Clio and I was a bit disappointed it wasn't that much quicker.

Another suggestion alongside the Clio might be an Integra Type R - you have a tiny bit more power, it's already got a lot of unnecessary weight out of it, it has 15" inch wheels as standard (potentially cheaper for tyres if you don't run the standard Bridgestones), and already has the LSD to drag it out of corners?

 

[ForceIndia]

I had a VX220 a while back, and while it was in for MOT went on a track day with a mate who had a CLio 172 cup - we shared driving on that day and it was a fun car on track, and we passed a lot of 'quicker' cars - elises/vx220/E36 M3's etc etc, albeit I suspect they weren't being driven to their full capabilities. The Clio was better through the faster corners, but I found it very frustrating managing the wheelspin coming out of the hairpin/other tight corner - it just wanted to spin the inside wheel up all the time.

Guess that's the problem with a fairly powerful front wheel drive car with no LSD.

With a bit of money thrown at the Clio it's very capable on track and fun. Probably not a huge amount quicker then the 106 Gti you had though - I had a Saxo Vts before the Clio and I was a bit disappointed it wasn't that much quicker.

Another suggestion alongside the Clio might be an Integra Type R - you have a tiny bit more power, it's already got a lot of unnecessary weight out of it, it has 15" inch wheels as standard (potentially cheaper for tyres if you don't run the standard Bridgestones), and already has the LSD to drag it out of corners?

Teg's are a lot pricier though! Especially for the 98 spec, which is the only one I'd consider.

 

[joebristolgym]

There is that - I didn't see a budget mentioned though, unless I'm being retarded (which I could be at this time in the morning on a day off).

If it's mostly a track car and a minter isn't needed you could get one for about 5k though surely - think the import ones on the whole are cheaper as well although I don't like the front end as much?

Why '98 ones - is that the early ones with the 9000rpm limiter rather then the 8500rpm one brought in later?

A championship white integra is one itch I haven't managed to scratch yet - wanted a rear wheel drive car this time after the Mini I'd had.

http://pistonheads.com/sales/1602191.htm

http://pistonheads.com/sales/1574814.htm

http://pistonheads.com/sales/1543983.htm

 

[Boombang]

I do like the Tegs, in fact was looking at DC2s and DC5s earlier (DC5 would be much easier to justify to the missus, already know she likes the looks of them).

Drove a DC2 back to back with my VX220 and unbelieable just how terrible the Teg felt - I do think though that this particular example let their side down. An old mate had a Teg and a 182 (although that got rolled!) and then went on to build a 200bhp 205 Mi16 - he rated his very highly.

I have a sum sat in the bank waiting for the right car, but I'm not a willy waver so would rather just say it's enough for anything mentioned.

Been through and totted up what I'd eventually do to any car i'd buy, and I'm 100% sure I'd be better off buying something already done - but that does cut out a lot of the fun.

There was a DC2 for £8k on sale recently, my first impression were that you could get nowhere near building the car for the money, and it probably would've worked out cheaper in the medium - long term too. For £8k you got to be sure of course, and that's one thing I'm not.

To give people a rough idea of my car history, think I've had somewhere in region of 30 cars in 10 years including:

Few 205 Gtis from standard to "fast road" to full on rally prepped (selling shell of this off now)
106 Gti (part track prepped, bottled it in the end as car was only 3 years old and couldn't afford to repair it if I bent it)
309 Mi16, 175bhp fully track prepped (cage, seats, harnesses, LSD, short final drive, completely stripped bar upper dash etc) did SQM in 14.4 seconds
VX220
Everything else I've had have sold on pretty quickly - either it broke or got bored. The VX220 was just not up to expectations. Good cars, but just couldn't gel with it & although quick it wasn't powerful enough.

Also used to work for a company called DES Developments (no longer in business unfortunately). They built the engine for this 205 amongst other bits on it:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1988-PEUGEOT-...ewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item3efe48aef1

I know the last owner of this, the guy who built it from scratch. Have to say am seriously tempted with it, and fully aware with another grand spent on it, it'd be truly awesome - however there is no way I could drive it to work with that engine spec.

 

[Gally]

I'd have fun buying a 106 gti and splashing track money at it.

A 172 cup is the perfect start to a track car tho.
You'll never get more power out of it without good money being paid out tho.

 

[Boombang]

Going back to a 106 Gti has been in the back of my mind for a couple of years, they are pennies now, relatively tuneable & amazing handlers.

Just not sure you should ever revisit anything you remember being so good. Mine was also getting rusty in a few places even though was only 3 years old, so dread to see what they are like now!

 

[Henry]

boombang, have you spent much time in the Clios yet?
i came from a 205 (recognise you from the driver's forum actually) - the car i have now isn't as characterful imo - quite different to drive and needs thrashing before it provides a similar sense of involvement

perhaps an irrelevant point if you're looking for a track machine, though

 

[joebristolgym]

Get a Saxo Vts and it isn't technically revisiting a car you've had before (even though it's almost identical to a 106 gti), and modifying bits are so cheap for it.....could pick up a non-barry'd one for about 1800 - 2000 pounds in an early mk2/facelift one (I found the facelift better to drive then the early one and interior was a bit better), and throw some money at it for the track.

I think I'd take the Teg over that option and a 172/182 if I intended to do a lot of track stuff.

What didn't you like about the VX220? I absolutely loved mine to drive, although a bit more top end fizz to the engine/more power wouldn't have gone amiss - guess the VXT or a Supercharger would have fixed that though.

 

[ForceIndia]

I'd have fun buying a 106 gti and splashing track money at it.

A 172 cup is the perfect start to a track car tho.
You'll never get more power out of it without good money being paid out tho.

We've established that the Op isn't after mine, so this isn't a sales pitch. But a ph1 is a better basis for a track car.

 

[Aluco]

Agree with warren

 

[Boombang]

What didn't you like about the VX220?

Main thing was practicality & it being remarkably underwhelming.

I had to park it in my garage, don't have the space to do anything else - once put away was a complete mare to get in and out of.

Wasn't keen on parking it anywhere it could get bumped, for obvious reasons even the smallest knock causes thousands of pounds of damage & associated hassle.

Roads round here are terrible - my daily commute is over the worst of the worst too.

Was easy to drive fast, but 10/10ths was very hard work. Compared to a Mk1 Elise lacked a lot of sharpness and responsiveness too.

Mine was setup quite aggressively, with the result it was crap in the wet or unless you really pushed it.

Just not for me thanks, if it had marginally more liveability and a V8 I think it'd been perfect.

 

[Boombang]

Spent a little while today checking insurance and can't work out why quotes are so high. Cheapest I've found is £100 more than my VX220 and almost 4 times as much as on my Corsa runabout/shed.

That's only on a 172 worth a dummy value of £3k, coming up as £600. Either these cars are stupid money to insure or I've screwed up every quote.

 

[ForceIndia]

Spent a little while today checking insurance and can't work out why quotes are so high. Cheapest I've found is £100 more than my VX220 and almost 4 times as much as on my Corsa runabout/shed.

That's only on a 172 worth a dummy value of £3k, coming up as £600. Either these cars are stupid money to insure or I've screwed up every quote.

They are expensive to insure. Try sky insurance, you'll get a discount if join here as a member.

 

[Boombang]

Will do, ta for advice. Might also call CCI who I was with on the VX220, but the regular screen scrapers have come up with terrible prices.

Have considered revisiting another old flame, 306 Gti-6 - unfortunately decent ones are sparse now.

 

[ForceIndia]

Will do, ta for advice. Might also call CCI who I was with on the VX220, but the regular screen scrapers have come up with terrible prices.

Have considered revisiting another old flame, 306 Gti-6 - unfortunately decent ones are sparse now.

I still miss my Rallye, brilliant fun. Especially on track, the lift off would be great!

 

[Boombang]

Took a deposit on my 205 shell today, being picked up with a lot of other bits next weekend.

Once that's gone I've got our 205 'ring car to finish off (got to weld in cage, seat mounts, then make sure it's mechanically 100%). After that I can start a brand new project.

Plenty of time to decide, but still like the idea of a Clio. More I look at them though, less I like the Mk1 shape!

 

[Boombang]

Missus is back from holiday (teacher so been away for Easter) and had a little look.

Have had an issue that she prettymuch point blank refuses to drive any of my cars to date, but the Clio actually got the thumbs up - so long as Mk2 shape, and straight away she's said how much she likes Racing Blue.

First time we've agreed on something from the start it seems, and guess with wanting an RB car the budget will dictate itself!

 

[Boombang]

Thanks for all the advice and info everyone, but I am going to get a Xsara VTS tomorrow.

Loads of car for the cash, just shame about the looks.

It does everything I need and leaves plenty of money for all sorts, going to see if I can squeeze a bit more together and get a ready built kit car for proper track use later in the year.