Algecan's 172 Cup ZLN

[Bmac]

For the last couple of years I've had a tank of Mondeo as the family runabout and daily commute. However, the Covid pandemic saw an end to my 80mile round trips to work and the mondeo was no longer required, especially as my kids have grown a little and I no longer needed the huge boot for their prams etc.

A few friends have had 172's and 182's now and in the past, and I was getting an itch to get one and get back to the days of having a car that was fast, fun and a bit of a project.
Late 2022/early 2023 saw the cost of these cars starting to increase so I was keen to get one sooner rather than later. There was a real mix of what was available on the market but none that seemed to be anywhere local to me.

After a few months, a pretty standard one turned up down south for a decent price. It had a yozza sport exhaust, decat and some apex lowering springs. 12x,xxx miles ('ve forgotten now), part service history and I was assured there was no rust. It needed a service and a cambelt but it was up for a reasonable price. I got on a 4hr train ride the next weekend (1st April 2023) to go and view/collect it.
I was slightly disappointed when I viewed the car, rust was starting to rubble on the arch lips and there were plenty of little dings here and there. The headliner was also sagging and the exhaust was horrendously loud, although it sounded awesome on full throttle. I took it for a good test drive and I was sold, however on the way back from the test drive, the EML light came on and there was a misfile. Back at the owners house he put a code reader on which suggested an injector issue, so nothing major I thought. I also noticed that it wasn't starting first time when he was trying. I was going to leave it as it wasn't in the best of conditions and with the EML light on I was put off, however I had travelled a long way so I gave him a low ball offer as it was a risk for me to travel back with it half way across the country, and surprisingly he accepted.

I Jumped in the car and set off for home but not before getting some documents for the car including the original service book which came with a thorough service history up until the last few years. The owner said he wasn't bothered about keeping records for the car but he showed me some messages showing that it had been serviced and had a stage 1 remap, something I was later able to confirm by phone call to the garage a few months later. About half way back I stopped at the services for fuel and a break. However, when I got back to the car, it would turn over but not start. A good friend travelled quite some distance with more tools and knowledge than I have, and he ruled out a lot of things. But even after fitting a new crankshaft sensor there was no starting it, so I called a local recovery firm. Not a great start!

By now I was massively regretting my gamble, but the the recovery driver was a Renault fan and suggested that the drains in the bulkhead might be blocked and might have caused water ingress to the UCH plugs and they might just need a clean, so I was starting to feel optimistic. The next morning the car still wouldn't start but sure enough the passenger front foot well was saturated. However, the plugs in the UCH were fine. About an hour of unplugging sensors and moving cables around, it suddenly roared into life.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to narrow down what had caused this, but it must have been a lose plug or wire. After nearly a year of ownership now, I've never had a starting issue!

I got the car booked in with Mick at Diamond Motors for a new cambelt and dephaser. As it was well over due these and Mick wasn't able to get me in for a couple a months, I left the car on the drive to sort out a few problems in the mean time.

 

[Clio_fool]

Good for you for taking a punt on it. It'll all be worth it in the end.

 

[Bmac]

Good for you for taking a punt on it. It'll all be worth it in the end.

Well it was either buy it or get the train home...and I can't stand trains!

 

[Bmac]

As for my plans with the car... I'm not too sure. Many years ago, I was a bit of a perfectionist with my cars, they were always gleaming, always getting the best kit etc.
However, now I'm older and have a family my priorities have changed. Whilst I still have that desire to turn it into a bit of a garage queen, I know it just isn't with my limited time or money. One thing is for sure, I want to make it as good as I can and also have some fun on the track, I just probably won't go to any extremes.
I would like to keep it for as long as possible, however it does have some limitations when it comes to hauling the kids around, so perhaps I'll just have a bit of fun in it and move on, only time will tell. One thing is for certain, whenever I'm out in it, I've got a smile on my face.

For a bit of fun, this is a size comparison with the Mondeo it replaced, both lined up at the front!

 

[Bmac]

The first thing I wanted to tackle was the leak into the passenger footwell.

As part of my investigations into it not starting, I had taken all the relays from the UCH to check for corrosion and thankfully they were all fine.

I removed the the scuttle panel and the wiper linkages to assess how bad the blockages were.

The drain hole on the passanger side was blocked, the drivers side was just as bad but the middle one was fine. I used a flexible metal pole to poke all the way through to ensure they were clear.

After a good clear out, I got the hose and filled up the scuttle with quite a lot of water to ensure that there was no water engress. Drivers side was fine, as apparently was the middle, however there was still water coming in from the passenger side.

After a bit of poking around, I found that the water was coming in from the gromet where the water pipe for the rear windscreen washer feeds through the bulkhead. No matter how many times I tried, I could not get the gromet to sit and seal properly. I think it had been left for so long that it had changed it shape, so it would never seal again.

I didn't fancy getting a new one to then have to disconnect the washer pipe and risk it not sealing, so instead I got some clear gasket sealant and used as much as I could around the gromet either side of the bulkhead.

I left this to dry for a coupld of days and tested it again with plently of water which confirmed no more leaks. Then it was a case of waiting a couple of weeks for the carpet and insulation to dry out!

Not pretty but its got the job done, should last a long time and isn't on display anyway.

 

[Bmac]

Next on this list of things to resolve was the headlining. This was sagging quite a lot and needed to be addressed.

I had a couple of options, try and remove the original heading and replace the fabric or buy a second hand one in good condition.
I didn't really fancy trying to replace the fabric, I felt it had too much scope to go wrong and I didn't fancy doing it again.

Fortunately, a second hand one turned up locally so I went and bought that.
The only problem with this was that it was a bit grubby and was also not from a cup, which means it had a hole in the rear for the middle seatbelt. Ideally I'd have liked a Cup version, but this isn't going to be some garage queen so I wasn't too fussed.

After plenty of scrubbing with some carpet stain remover and a microfibre cloth, I was pretty happy with the results. The black marks around the edge get hidden with the plastic trims.

Fortunately I was easily able to remove the old headlining and the new one went in without any issues. I used some plastic blanking plugs that I found from a scraped Clio which nicely went into the wholes for the middle seatbelts.

 

[Bmac]

After this came some of the interior plastics which were dirty and sticky. I also had a bulb out in the clock on the dashboard and the only way to replace that was to remove the dashboard, something I did on my lunch break in no time at all. I also had marks on the top of the clocks which I thought I would struggle to remove.

Whilst I was at it I also replaced the hazard switch that was not working.
I was surprised how well everything turned out with some CIF and a non-scratch scouring pad

 

[Bmac]

The last thing to do with the interior was to remove the window tints. They were only a very light tint and looked pretty good, however they had clearly been cleaned at some point with something abrasive which made them look horrible at the right angle.

With that now complete, I gave the interior a good clean with plastic restorer and carpet cleaner. Whilst it didn't look brand new, it was a vast difference compared to when I bought the car.

Now to address some of the small little niggles, like the boot lock that wouldn't lock...

and then boot struts that didn't open or close the boot properly

 

[Bmac]

Next up was to sort out the engine management light and misfire that occurred on the test drive and allowed me to get the car cheap.

I was getting a fire generic code for the misfire and couldn't really pin it to one cylinder as it was running ok at idle. I bit the bullet and bought 4 new injectors, thinking that if 1 had gone, they were all probably old and would need replacing at some point anyway. The guy I bought the car also said he had recently replaced the spark plugs and coil pack which just left the injectors.

Old injectors out looking pretty grotty

New injectors in

With the codes cleared and the engine started, the management light was off. At this point I still wasn't driving the car, awaiting for a new cambelt and dephaser fitting from Diamond Motors, so I couldn't test it on the road.

However, when the car was back on the road, the fault did not return so that was a fairly easy and cheap fix.

 

[Bmac]

The car came with a YozzaSport race back back, mid section and a decat. A hole had been cut in the bumper to make way for the tail pipe and the exhaust sounded awesome under full load. However, it was obnoxiously loud when starting up and extremely droning at 30mph, not great with the kinds in the back. It was also misaligned as the middle section hanger was non-existent and the rear hanger was knackered.

You can just make out in this picture how the exhaust it sitting below the bumper despite having a recess to fit in.

Yozza on idle...


I was able to pick up a ktec stealth back box, silenced middle section and an almost new ktec 200cell sports cat and some new Powerflex hangers.
The new exhaust looks horrible but at least it is not too loud. I'm not a massive fan of the sound and I'd like to get the Yozza back on with the sports cat at some point to see if it is any quiter. If it is still too loud I might have a new middle silence added to it, as the Yozza is lovely back box and it would be a shame not to use it.

Ktec Stealth

At this point I also changed the Apex lowering springs which were rubbing on the front arch lining making a hole through them and were very harsh, with some H&R springs (which you can just make out in the pic above). I haven't read too much about the H&R spring on here but had heard they were meant to be a bit softer which they definitely are. It might not help with the speed bumps and pot holes where I live but they still seem a bit harsh to me. They will do for now as they are significantly better than the Apex springs. I know a lot of people say that the standard cup shocks are pretty good but one day I'd like to get some decent coil overs on there but that will probably be a couple of years away as there are plenty of other jobs to sort out first.

Not sure If anyone else has any experience with them?

The car does sit fairly nice on them and it cured the rubbing issue as well so I can't complain too much.

 

[yeecup]

looks good on them. not had experience with them myself previously had eibach sports on a few clios which were good and now running bilstein b14s on my cup which are very nice but you do feel the bumps more.

 

[Bmac]

RUST!

When I started looking for a 172 Cup, I was determined to get one that was rust free, however I know that the majority of these are starting to rust now, albeit to varying degrees. As I mentioned in the first post, after traveling for many hours for what I was told was a rust free car, I was disappointed to find some rust on the lips of the arches.

The rust here didn't seem to be anything significant and I was pretty confident that I could take the job on myself, so that is what I set out to do during the summer.

First Job was to get a better idea of what I was dealing with and my heart did sink a little. When I removed the rear quater pannel door cards, there was rust on the inside but not a huge amount. The jacking points weren't too bad at all but there was various rust points all along the sill.

The purpose of the work was to try and stop the spread, at least through this winter and then reassess in the spring to see if my methods had an impact.

Firstly, what I was dealing with (annoyingly I don't seem to have taken many before pictures)

I followed a fairly simply process:
Sand back as much of the rust as possibly to bare metal
Apply Bilt Hamber Deox-c
Apply Bilt Hamber Hydrate 80
Prime
Paint
Laquer

The biggest issues I had was space and tools. I only had a small wire brush on the end of a drill to get back to metal and in some instance it wasn't powerful enough, and I also had trouble getting it into the rear quarters so I had do this by hand.

Sanding Back:

 

[Bmac]

After applying Deox-C, sorry not many pictures here

 

[Bmac]

Then on to Hydrate 80

 

[Bmac]

Then on with 4 layers of primer, 4 paint and 4 lacquer to give it as much protection as possible.
Not the best of finishes but as mentioned, this is just to try and stop it getting worse of the winter:

With the two pictures above, I put plenty of seam sealer where the various panels meeting just to try and prevent any any water ingress as some of the sanding had removed what was already there.

Rather than using rivets to put the side skirts back on, I've used stainless steel nuts and bolts so I can take them off easier to inspect. Hopefully this year I'll upgrade them to rivet nuts.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. I learnt a lot in the process but could really have done with a grinder and wire brush to get more rust off, rather than relying on my drill and small wire wheel.

When the warmer whether is here, I will have another inspection to see if this work has held it off. At some point I'd like to get it properly sorted, replacing with fresh metal where needed, but considering this would need to be done by a specialist as I cant do it, I've got to factor in the cost and value of the car.


To finish all this off, I also bought some Bilt Hamber Dynax UC, which I sprayed ample amounts of in the rear quarters as well as in the arches and along the sills, although it probably won't last too long in on the exterior.

 

[Mr Underhill]

That's not too bad and at least you've started fighting back. It'll eventually beat you of course, but there are plenty of places that will cut out the old rot and refabricate new sections. S50 wax oil by bilt hamber is also very good as it creeps inside the places you can't reach and has similar rust-neutralising properties as Hydrate-80

 

[Bmac]

There's quite a few other things I want to get sorted on the car first before I go through the expense of having the rust cut out, so as long as it holds it back a little while longer then I'll be happy, but you're right, unless it is cut out it is a losing battle, it's just when will it be lost!

I didn't realise the S50 was similar to the Hydrate-80, I'll take a look.

 

[Bmac]

When the Cup was with Mick @ Diamond Motors, he mentioned that the rear brake pipe going across the beam was corroding at the clips.
I popped over to a mates who has the tools and knowledge to sort it out. We replaced the brake lines to both rear callipers as well as 2 other pipes that we noticed were corroded.
The brake discs on the rears showed signs that they were not really being used and I could hear a rumbling sound that I suspected to be the bearing. So the discs and pads were changed for Brembo options.

When we changed the lines and tried to bleed the brakes, we struggled to get any fluid out of the rears. We had a good play with the compensator valve on the rear beam to free it up as it seemed to be stuck, which would explain why the discs were in such bad shape. Since the change and trying to free up the value, the discs have been kept pretty clear so they are now clearly doing some of the braking.
Whilst replacing the lines, we put in some Motul 660 Brake fluid.

Also replaced at the same time were the front discs and pads. The car had very poor braking effect, the pedal felt spongy and there was no initial bite. I replaced the discs with Brembo HC discs and some standard Ferodo brake pads. I don't have pictures of the new set up but you can see from the picture below how bad the discs were with what looked like chunks taken out of them, and they were also badly scored. It also looked like the rear pad was barely making contact with the disc.

One thing I had also noticed was that the slider seals were damaged. A new slider set from Bigg Red was ordered and fitted.

With all this sorted, there was a massive difference to the feel of the brakes, however for piece of mind, one of the first tasks in 2024 will be new rear callipers as they seem fairly cheep, a full refresh of the fronts and replace the compensator valve.

 

[Mr Underhill]

I didn't realise the S50 was similar to the Hydrate-80, I'll take a look.

Yeah but it’s proper messy stuff and goes everywhere. Perfect for places like inside the rear quarters where the corrosion has eaten into the seam. Or inside the sills, rear beam or pretty much anywhere where water, dirt and salt will collect. It displaces water. It doesn’t like UV light, hence best inside cavities or underneath the car. I use the Dynax UC on areas where it’s more visible - door hinges, along the inside lip of wheel arches, inside fuel flap etc as it’s a nice clear wax.

 

[Bmac]

A few other issues sorted.

I went to the car one morning after one of our many recent storms and found a puddle of water in the rear passenger footwell with water seemingly coming from over the plastic door threshold. One thing I noticed recently when washing the car was the sound of water dripping into the door when I put water over the passenger window. I quick look on the forum pointed me to the butyl tape around the door card, so some was ordered and when I took off the door card, you could see where it had worn away and was letting water seep past the seal.

All the older butyl tape was easily removed with brake cleaner and the plastic and door were cleaned with IPA to make sure it was clean for the butyl tape to adhere to

Once reassembled, more water over the window confirmed no more leaks!

At some point, the air bag light came on. I checked the wiring underneath the passenger seat as I knew this was a common fault, to find someone had already been there as the plugs were cut out and replaced with blocks. I then replaced these with bullet connectors which will hopefully give it some better reliability. Once done, the air bag light was out, a new easy fix.

I've also got a small leak from the gearbox selector seal which is another common problem. The gearbox has a very small crunch into third when doing fast gear changes, which I will sort out when it is much worse (other priorities for now), as part of that, the seal will be replaced. For now though, I need to sort out the small amount of oil forming on the drive. I managed to source a new gearbox drip trip/plaster cover to stop the muck, which was an easy job to fit in place

Also under taken in Oct 2023 was a service which I did myself, invoice etc were kept to evidence this but I was hoping some pictures one here might also prove it had been done for any propective furutre buyers. However, the only one I seem to have taken was a side by side comparison of the the old filter.

This appears to be one of the 'Fatty' induction kits from the forum that I've seen.
The reason the old filter looks so bad is not only age, but because there is no support to the intake pipe, allowing the filter to drop and rub on the battery and various metal parts in the engine bay. I've tied this up temporarily to the bar going over the battery with some metal I had to hand. However, does anyone have a more permanent solution this?

 

[Bmac]

Who said Clio's were no good as a daily in the winter?

 

[Bmac]

I've not made a huge amount of progress really with winter and then entering into my busy period at work, but I've done a few small things.

First thing to sort out was brakes, although this isn't complete yet. As you can see from above, I've already started to replace the brake lines and getting new/refurbed rear calipers is on the list, as well as new handbrake cables. A pair of old calipers came up local for £20 so I snapped them up, unfortunately, they had been painted several times and weren't in great condition. I had intended to just send them off to the likes of SSL and get them reconditioned, but thought I'd give them a go my self.

First step was to get the wire wheel on them. Because of their shape and little intricacies, this took hours and by the end my hands were shaking from the grinder, but with all the paint stripped off, they were looking a lot better.

Next after a thorough clean with brake cleaner and degreaser, they were ready for paint. I opted for Simoniz Silver VHT Paint.

I put three coats on and then cured the paint in the oven.

Really happy with the results.
Next was a complete rebuild kit from Bigg Red, They aren't really in the pictures but I've also been working on the carriers as well and new sliders were also purchased along with the pistons.

All reassembled...

I have then stored them ever since, mainly due to a lack of time and bleed kit. Something I'll get round to in the summer.

 

[Bmac]

One thing that has been bugging me is that the stereo doesn't have a surround, and it really lets the interior down which is in reasonable condition apart from wear on the drivers seat bolster. I've also not been able to be heard when using the Bluetooth when taking a call without having to shout, and I recently found out that what i thought were microphones on the A pillars are in fact the interior sensors for the alarm, what a fool!

I thought I might have to buy a new stereo but was surprised to find I could buy the surround on eBay and with a cheap microphone coming from China, that was the stereo sorted, not bad for £10. I just need to get a connects2 lead so the remote buttons on the steering column work.

 

[Bmac]

I've also had a knocking sound when setting off or coming off the throttle when in first gear, something was moving. I opted to replace the dog bone mount first after checking the engine and gearbox mounts were tight. Without checking, i purchased some powerflex bushes and then get under the car with some time spare to replace them, only to find....

...An Evol Engineering dog bone mount, so obviously those bushes had to be sent back.
The bushes in this look OK and I can't imagine it is too old, so I won't be replacing them for them.

Does anyone know anything about these evol mounts, are they any good?

Next I moved onto the engine mount and bought a new Febi Mount.

Whilst I was at it, I also moved the engine forward in case it was moving and hitting something, this has stopped the knocking but I'm not sure which has, the new mount or moving the engine forward!

 

[Bmac]

I hate the rear of the car as it has a hole in the bumper where the YozzaSport exhaust used to be. It seems many on here like the stealth exhausts and uncut bumpers, whereas I've always liked a tail pipe. It also doesn't help that I reverse the car onto the drive and it's parked in front of the front door, so as soon as I open the door, its one of the first things I see.

When I removed the Yozza and the decat, I replaced it with a KTec sports cat, which I've already written about further up. Hoping that the sports cat alone would quieten down the Yozza to more respectable levels, I set about refitting it to the sports cat.

After fitting, and annoyingly not taking a picture as with the new exhaust mount, now fitted perfectly in the cutout rather than hanging below the bumper and I thought looked awesome, I took it for a test drive to the local recycling center. However, it broke down in the one way queue. After the pain off getting about 10 cars to reverse out of the queue behind me and with the help of staff who were quite happy to tell me several times to their amusement that I shouldn't have bought a 20 year old clio, we managed to get it pushed back to the entrance.
Thinking that this was the return of the dreaded non-start issue that I had when I purchased the car I set about getting towed home. Fortunately there was a petrol station 5 mins down the road and with a tow rope purchased, the wife called, we set about towing it home.

After establishing that it wasn't getting fuel after removing the fuel line at the injectors and not getting any power to the fuel pump, I found a blown fuse for the fuel pump. This was replaced and the car started straight away, however as I went to take it for a drive and put it in to first gear, it cut out and wouldn't start again as the fuse had blown again. Which come to think of it, is exactly when it cut out in the queue, just as I put it into first.

A bit of research and texting mates led me to the post cat lambda sensor.

Back up on the jacks, I soon found the problem, the Yozza must sit higher, or more the ktec sports cat has a slightly different mounting point for the sensor as when I select first, it was rubbing on the wires, it only tool a couple of times to rub through and then short, blowing the fuse.

I bought a blanking plug for the sensor whilst I worked out what I wanted to do with the exhaust, one of the options is to cut the mounting point for the lambda sensor and slightly relocate it, as you can see, it only needs to move about 5mm, so I could cut around it but not fully out, and then bend it 5mm and weld back so it sits on a slight angle.
Ultimately, whilst it sounds incredible under full load it it still too loud. I toyed with a couple of options, like getting the center silencer from the ktec welded in, or just getting a custom center section with silencer put it, but for now I decided to just put the ktec on and sell the yozza. It has actually been up for sale since I bought the car over a year ago and whilst there has been some interest it has not sold.

I think rather than messing around with custom center sections and silencers, it's probably easier to just buy a piper exhaust. For now though it sits in the shed, it's a real shame as it is a quality piece of kit, and I have been told it is the race version which can be repacked. They seemed very popular many years ago, but i think the time of the asbo exhaust has gone now.

Not pictured is the new lambda sensor.

 

[Bmac]

Managed to find a picture of the yozza fitted. I really wish it was quiter, I think it looks great, apart from the filthy car.

I doubt something like a Piper will fit in the same cut out.

 

[Bmac]

Picture didn't seem to load above.

 

[Coops Mk1]

Great little write up chap, as said in the spotted thread, seen your car at Aldi several times over the past few months, we'll have to catch up at some point

 

[Bmac]

I've made a couple of adjustments recently to the exhaust to make it sit a little higher as it scraps getting it off the drive (my drive is on a small incline). I noticed that a couple of the nuts holding on the exhaust heat shields had disapeared so I bought some heat shield clips that seem to do a good job. The picture makes it look like the heat shield is on it's last legs, most of it is fine, it's around the edges.

Whilst I was under there, I also noticed the center hanger which I only replaced last year is worn, there's always something! So that is added to the list of things to replace.

Having the day off also meant that I could spend some time on the car. I've been wanting to do a compression test on it since I bought it, just to see if it was a healthy engine. It read 210psi accross all 4 pistons which I was surprised and happy with. I thought there might have been some varience. The spark plugs have not been changed in my ownership but they looked healthy to me.

Typically, after some positive work on the car, the door handle then went and snapped when I went for a quick drive afterwards!

Whats next?
I've started work on the rust that has just started to form around the fuel filler cap, I'll do an update on that when it is complete.

Otherwise, I'm toying with the idea of selling up. I barely use the car and in the next few months I will be starting to commute to work, so ideally I need something more appropriate. I really fancy a E60/E61 530d/535d. Not really sure at what price to pitch the car at if I do make my mind up. Prices seem to be all over. £3k would be ideal but I'm not sure if that is too high, it's not a minter.

 

[Coops Mk1]

130 mile commute to Welwyn..... Commuting no issue in a Clio, I vote keep it ... 170k miles clicked on the way and 47mpg

 

[Bmac]

130 mile commute to Welwyn..... Commuting no issue in a Clio, I vote keep it ... 170k miles clicked on the way and 47mpg

I know but a 4 hour commute, sat a lot of the time in stop start traffic isn't particular comfy in this. An auto would be much nicer

 

[Bmac]

A little bit more progress has been made now.

Firstly, new door handles to replace the broken ones.

Then I treated the fuel filler, which was starting to rust, before it got any worse.

Sanded back to metal, thankfully the majority of it was surface rust. Bilt Hamber Deox Gel applied to get to the small amount of pitting.

Then Hydrate-80 applied to the whole area, primered, painted and lacquered, with 3 coats applied for each.

And reassembled, looking much better. Hopefully that will be last for a number of years. I think if it was left over the next winter, there would have been much more pitting.

 

[BREMBO]

Great project and work! Do love a 172 Cup.