Alignment Help

[Rojer]

Recently had alignment on the Clio, but I'm not especially happy with it. I have a bit of left hand down and it can be a bit squirrelly under harder braking. Can anyone offer advice on what I need to do? The car is running standard suspension apart from lowering springs. Would i need a 20' OSR axle spacer? The front toe and camber is a bit different on either side despite adjusting the top mounts. Would be awesome if I could sort before CSF at CSF worst case. Tagging people for help @Filters @Adey. @Brigsy @Touring_Rob

 

[JamesBryan]

Why have they not got the front toe the same?

 

[Rojer]

I have no idea lol, that's what Brigsy said to me. I have asked him, but he is slow to respond. I know he had to fight the track rod on that side.

 

[JamesBryan]

It will want to drive to the right like that.

Assume you have to steer left to go straight?

Apart from that, there's no reason why it should be unstable under braking.

 

[Rojer]

He told me the rear has more control on where the front goes then the difference in camber. I have a bit of left hand down to go straight atm.

 

[JamesBryan]

I've seen rear toe worse than that and still drive straight.

Front toe needs sorting to -00.06 both sides.

 

[Rojer]

I'm going to take it to the local tyre place today as they have really good reviews and show them the results and see what they think.

 

[JamesBryan]

9 minutes of thrust angle won't be causing it.

My old 182 had 10 minutes and it drove perfectly.

You'd need 30 minutes or half a degrees of thrust to get the back steering the car one way.

 

[Touring_Rob]

Why have they not got the front toe the same?

Doesn't matter, front toe equals out.

Am I reading it right, you have toe out rear??

I don't think theres a great deal you can do Rojer, is the rear torsion/beam like a 182?

 

[Rojer]

Doesn't matter, front toe equals out.

Am I reading it right, you have toe out rear??

I don't think theres a great deal you can do Rojer, is the rear torsion/beam like a 182?

Yer rear beam like 182. I could get something like this?

Clio 4 RS EDC Camber/Toe shim

Rear camber/toe shim for Renaultsport Clio 4 200 EDC. THESE SHIMS ARE SOLD SINGLY NOT AS A PAIR!

www.pure-motorsport.co.uk

 

[JamesBryan]

Doesn't matter, front toe equals out.

Am I reading it right, you have toe out rear??

I don't think theres a great deal you can do Rojer, is the rear torsion/beam like a 182?

Rear toe is positive number, so toe in.

When you say equals out, how do you mean?

 

[Touring_Rob]

PS - if everything is relatively straight (arms wise) then 9/10 unequal camber/toe is caused by worn bushes as is a car giving some unexpected rear steer under heavy braking.

 

[Rojer]

PS - if everything is relatively straight (arms wise) then 9/10 unequal camber/toe is caused by worn bushes as is a car giving some unexpected rear steer under heavy braking.

So front wishbones and rear axle bushes?

 

[Touring_Rob]

Rear toe is positive number, so toe in.

That always winds me up, some places keep it constant front to rear.

My goto for anything like this is front straight (no toe) rear slight toe in. more than -1.5deg negative camber all round. Thats not always achievable. But generally that gives you a good starting point and lets you play about with tyre pressures a bit to make good.

 

[Touring_Rob]

So front wishbones and rear axle bushes?

If its rear beam and you have unequal toe or camber then its more likely the beam is slightly bent. You can sort that with shims.

But the thing going squirrely could well be the main rear beam bushes. 182's do that too. Not as badly as E46 bmw's but bad enough you can feel it.

Front wishbone bushes aren't too difficult to diagnose, get someone to drive forwards and stamp on the brakes, then backwards and stamp on the brakes and see fi the wheel moves in the arch.

 

[JamesBryan]

That always winds me up, some places keep it constant front to rear.

My goto for anything like this is front straight (no toe) rear slight toe in. more than -1.5deg negative camber all round. Thats not always achievable. But generally that gives you a good starting point and lets you play about with tyre pressures a bit to make good.

It is confusing, between that and the diagram of the wheel. You've got me thinking now...

RS's have front toe out from factory.

 

[R3k1355]

One side of a rear beam being out, maybe had a whack at some point?

 

[Brigsy]

Like i said before mate it sewms odd one side toe out and other is parallell? Only explanation would be seized tie rod/couldnt be arsed. Doesnt look like anything esle is miles out upfront.

Thrust angle is quite far out rear beam needs swinging on mounts a bit imo, no expert however..i done this on my r26 to get thrust angle as close to zero as poss, made a mega difference to the way it drives

 

[Rojer]

Ok, so what should I realistically do given the limited time frame? Get the front toe sorted? Rear axle shim?

 

[Brigsy]

Also toe out generally can make them a little loose under very hard braking, its not s**t yourself though. Mine does it with 10mins toe out overall.

 

[Brigsy]

Ok, so what should I realistically do given the limited time frame? Get the front toe sorted? Rear axle shim?

Get front toe sorted and send it.

 

[JamesBryan]

Also toe out generally can make them a little loose under very hard braking, its not s**t yourself though. Mine does it with 10mins toe out overall.

Mk3 Megane is 14 mins from factory

 

[Filters]

My guess, is you've got a rear bearing failing on the drivers side or play in the axle bush on that side.
There's no toe adjustment on the back, yet it shifts on the before and after for that side.

 

[Brigsy]

Mk3 Megane is 14 mins from factory

Sound that, Good for turn in. I should try more agressive toe out on my r26. Unsure what stock settings are to be fair!

 

[Brigsy]

My guess, is you've got a rear bearing failing on the drivers side or play in the axle bush on that side.
There's no toe adjustment on the back, yet it shifts on the before and after for that side.

Good shout that. A set of poly rear beam bushes wont go a miss, make a massive difference over worn oem.

 

[Rojer]

So took it to the local tyre place. Right side was showing -00.15' and the left side was showing 00.06. Both sides are now -06 and the car drives straight. I'll get some rear beam bushes sorted and see if that corrects the rear.

 

[Filters]

So took it to the local tyre place. Right side was showing -00.15' and the left side was showing -00.06. Both sides are now 06 and the car drives straight. I'll get some rear beam bushes sorted and see if that corrects the rear.

Bushes won't adjust it buddy, if anything - you'll want to shim the rear after installing the new bushes to ensure all is square

 

[Rojer]

Bushes won't adjust it buddy, if anything - you'll want to shim the rear after installing the new bushes to ensure all is square

Ok so new rear bushes and 20' shim and we should be all good?

 

[Filters]

Ok so new rear bushes and 20' shim and we should be all good?

Nope.

New bushes. Alignment check.
Shim to desired alignment. Recheck.

 

[Rojer]

Nice one, thanks.

 

[Touring_Rob]

It is confusing, between that and the diagram of the wheel. You've got me thinking now...

RS's have front toe out from factory.

Front toe out is fine.

Rear toe out is less fine.

Like i said before mate it sewms odd one side toe out and other is parallell? Only explanation would be seized tie rod/couldnt be arsed. Doesnt look like anything esle is miles out upfront.

Thrust angle is quite far out rear beam needs swinging on mounts a bit imo, no expert however..i done this on my r26 to get thrust angle as close to zero as poss, made a mega difference to the way it drives

Are you talking about the front or rear mate?

You can't have front toe on one wheel only.

They can adjust it and on the tracking machine it will show as toe on one wheel, but as soon as you drive it the steering wheel kinks over and the toe is shared across the axle - they just can't do that when its on plates.

What they have likely done is to fix the straight ahead value and make the steering straight by adjusting one track rod end.

Rear is a different story.... as well... theres no steering wheel for the rear.

At those miles Rojer as said earlier its either something bent or a bush - my money would be on a bush. (taking rear end). Its really not uncommon for someone to whack a kerb and bend the beam a little.

 

[Touring_Rob]

Ok, so what should I realistically do given the limited time frame? Get the front toe sorted? Rear axle shim?

Do the test i meantioned earlier - if the front wheels don't move in the arch ignore the front.

Get under and have a look at the rear beam bushes - if they look shagged overnight parts from Japan (powerflex) and get a bush press windy tool thing so you can replace them with the beam in the car by doing one side at a time.

Did you change the brake lines yet? If not then you brake lines are likely far more likely to put you into a wall than a bit of rear steer (just my uneducated opinion).

 

[Rojer]

This is what it looks like now. He said the left was flickering between 03 and 06 when he hit continue.

 

[Touring_Rob]

What machine are they using.

How is total toe -06'?....... 6+3 =?

 

[Brigsy]

Front toe out is fine.

Rear toe out is less fine.


Are you talking about the front or rear mate?

You can't have front toe on one wheel only.

They can adjust it and on the tracking machine it will show as toe on one wheel, but as soon as you drive it the steering wheel kinks over and the toe is shared across the axle - they just can't do that when its on plates.

What they have likely done is to fix the straight ahead value and make the steering straight by adjusting one track rod end.

Rear is a different story.... as well... theres no steering wheel for the rear.

At those miles Rojer as said earlier its either something bent or a bush - my money would be on a bush. (taking rear end). Its really not uncommon for someone to whack a kerb and bend the beam a little.

I meant front toe, as rear is non adjustable without mucho f**k about/shims. It stinks of adjusting one side up front, my local place is good at doing it like that. As you say, you drive down the road and its a shitstorm of steering wheel on the piss usually.

Rear is always out tbf on every fwd ive had done. Never see it knacker unless its been shimmed or whatever, if possible.

 

[Brigsy]

What machine are they using.

How is total toe -06'?....... 6+3 =?

Some of these alignment setups are questionable at best, even the good ones. When my mate had free reign in local kwik fit, he used to get the hunter alignment recalibrated all the time. The figures used to move all over depending on lift height. We eventually sussed out the lift needed to be at a set height to be 'right'/ level. Camber was 1deg out on one side if not in that position

 

[Rojer]

It drives straight, so it will do for now. After CSF I can continue the restoration and replacing everything until Renault offer me a spot in their museum.

 

[Brigsy]

Send it. Be fine.

 

[Filters]

Best thing to do at this point, sack your local guy off and find someone who does geometry and suspension set ups for a living after CSF. Center Gravity or similar.

For now - send it.

 

[Bleu]

Or Alex at AW motorworks