Another cam belt timing question

[Rkuk99]

Hi guys, recently got my hands on a 03 plate 172 cup. Now when I got it it was clattering from the top end so I was thinking the dephaser was gone. Now a lot of people seem to say that's its a rattle they hear when it's knackard but mines definitely making a clattering noise all the way along the top end. Its also running like crap and cuts out at traffic lights etc. I have now started to strip it and have found paint marks on both cam pulleys indicating someone's been at it before so wondering if maybe the timings out, would that cause a top end clatter if it was? Have also rocked the crank back and forth expecting to see some play in the dephaser but nothing attall. Got the timing tools on order but my question is is there anyway to actually check the timing before I start undoing things at the belt?

 

[Fred@BTM]

if the dephaser is fucked the timing will be out anyway as they just flop about inside (you won't see any movement by rocking the crank, remove the cam plugs on the gearbox end and you'll find you'll be able to move the inlet cam even with the belt still on)

 

[Rkuk99]

Thanks for the quick reply mate. Should have described better wot I did. When I was rocking the crank I had the oil cap off looking inside as I rocked it and there was no play. Even put my finger in through the cap and could feel there was no play attall. I'm just trying to figure out what exactly the problem is as if its just the fact that the timings out I dnt want to go buying a dephaser etc if I don't need to. Is there an easy way to check the timing?

 

[MicKPM]

You won't move it by hand mate you'll need something in the notches really.

 

[Rkuk99]

Ahhh so say if I lock the inlet cam at the gearbox side with something then try to rock the crank I might find some play then?

 

[Fred@BTM]

no no no no no

leave the crank alone, just put something in the end of the inlet cam (gearbox end) and see if it moves without the cambelt moving, if it does - dephaser is dead

 

[Rkuk99]

Gotcha. F**k nos what I'll put in it but ill find something lol. Will report back

 

[MicKPM]

It'll either move loads or a few degrees but either way, movement = done!

Don't damage the locating notches in the cams though or else you'll never time them up again (like below):

 

[Rkuk99]

Right mate just done as u said. Put an old chisel in the grooves with a pair of vise grips on the end of it. There's about 1mm play in it (if that). Is that enough to put it all to pot and cause the clattering? Also just noticed the marks on the belt tensioner don't quite line up. Could actually turn the tensioner by hand as the belt sits.

 

[MicKPM]

It'll be more than 1mm I promise but yes, it'll be the cause of said clattering

 

[Rkuk99]

well that's what I thought originally but I was just hoping to check the timing first before I rip it all to bits. rule out the easy stuff first.

 

[MicKPM]

As Fred said earlier, if there's any movement in the dephaser assembly your timing is going to be wrong anyway. Just make sure you get the crank pin in the correct hole or this happens:

 

[Rkuk99]

cheers guys. I honestly didn't think that amount of movement in the dephaser would cause such a clatter. looks like am just gonna have to open the wallet and be done with it. btw anyone know where the tdc timing mark is on the flywheel? apparently you can see it through the gearbox bell housing but is it from the top or bottom?

 

[Rkuk99]

right guys following on from this I have just noticed two videos on youtube of an incorrectly fitted cambelt on these engines. the guy basically grabs the belt between the two cam pulleys and moves the belt up and down. this is exactly what my belt is doing. I noticed this as soon as I took the top cover off but didn't think anything of it. I take it this is an issue then? also the fact I can turn the tensioner by hand with everything in place?

 

[Fred@BTM]

WTF?

 

[Rkuk99]

search youtube for incorrectly fitted 182 cambelt. its there. or is this normal?

 

[Fred@BTM]

by Michael Mardlin??? I'd say old Mike knows what he's doing

yeah the belt should by TIGHT between the pullies, doubt you'll feel slack without the cams locked

 

[Rkuk99]

Well I've not got them locked yet and it's def slack like that vid. Bit concerned I could turn the tensioner wheel by hand also with very little resistance. I take it if the belts slack it could cause all sorts of problems? I.e. clattering due to incorrect timing. Don't suppose you've got a pic of the way the tensioner should look like when it's all tensioned up properly. Have looked in the service history and the belt was done by a garage in Caithness way up north. The liklyhood they knew what they were doing??? Lol

 

[Rkuk99]

think ive cracked it mate, I have the cambelt fitting guide and was looking at the tensioner picture on it. went out and looked at the tensioner on the car and the marks that should be lined up are a mile out, like 1cm out.

 

[ixell]

Dear all

ive just picked up a very clean 172 cup on a 53 plate with 43000 mile.The cam belt needs to be changed do any of you know of a good but fair price company or guy to call.Im based in Cheshunt which is in hertfordshire.
Hope you guys can help,as i not want to pay the £400 mark.

 

[MartinR]

As Fred said earlier, if there's any movement in the dephaser assembly your timing is going to be wrong anyway. Just make sure you get the crank pin in the correct hole or this happens:

So that is the position the cams will sit if you put the crank pin in the wrong hole?? (balancing one instead).

 

[Fred@BTM]

nope, thats the position the cams sit in if the previous people time it up with the pin in the balancing hole, then when its checked with the pin in the CORRECT hole they sit like that

 

[Mike@Rentech]

by Michael Mardlin??? I'd say old Mike knows what he's doing

yeah the belt should by TIGHT between the pullies, doubt you'll feel slack without the cams locked

Forgot about this vid haha , I just upload dog and boat vids now (;

 

[MartinR]

nope, thats the position the cams sit in if the previous people time it up with the pin in the balancing hole, then when its checked with the pin in the CORRECT hole they sit like that

Flol other way round freddo

 

[Dan@SJM]

Dear all

ive just picked up a very clean 172 cup on a 53 plate with 43000 mile.The cam belt needs to be changed do any of you know of a good but fair price company or guy to call.Im based in Cheshunt which is in hertfordshire.
Hope you guys can help,as i not want to pay the £400 mark.

Well that's the price you'll be paying for a properly done job.

 

[pritchard-13]

^^ yup i paid £250 labour 130 for cambelt kit and 130 for dephaser the guy who done it said my timming was miles out due to the dephaser being nakerd had the belts and dephaser done timmed back up and shes a lot quicker then it was before i dropped it off