Anyone got AST coilovers?

[mbarnes]

Just wondering what people think to them?

was speaking to them at powerstation the other day about a set for the 197.

how have people found them for road and track use?

reliable? worth the money?

anyone forked out for the remote reservoir setup?

cheers

 

[Fred@BTM]

the 172/182 stuff is good, but could be better, i will get slated for this (again) but the fronts are too hard IMO but the rears are spot bollock on

 

[mbarnes]

cheers fred. are the fronts too hard because your car is fully stripped out and they are designed for road cars?

sorry if this has been covered before.

my issue is as i have a 197 not many people do kits (exc proflex and ohlin which i am not sure i want to stretch too). Dont fancy H&R and all that, would rather have something designed for track use.

Bilsteins dont do a kit for the 197 sadly.

other option would be the struts etc off the cup racer car, but i think then i need new hubs etc.

 

[Fred@BTM]

KW??

i've driven 4 cars in anger with AST's on, stripped and non stripped, track versions and non track versions, the front on all of them i've found too hard, IMO the stuff from H&R Bilstein and KW off the shelf as a "whack it on, off you go" are hard to beat, but then i don't know if AST's R&D budget is anything like that of zee germans

they could be perfect (the backs are), they're so close its annoying!

 

[mbarnes]

are the ast's you are talking about adjustable? would this help?

 

[Fred@BTM]

yeah, thats with them on full soft at the front!

 

[mbarnes]

ah right.

hmm, thats interesting then. to be honest, i thought ast's would be better than H&Rs and KW. I always saw KW and people like that as coilovers for looks. They seem to bring kits out as fast as manufacturers can make the cars, so was never convinced they would be a proper "upgrade".

I have the cup chassis on mine, so last thing i want to do is go backwards.

The Ast do a remote reservoir 3way adj setup but its out of budget really for me

Anyone got experience with KW etc? I just worry about suspension. used to have a 106, and alot of people would rave about a suspension setup because it felt rock solid and you didnt get any bodyroll. didnt necessarily mean you could go faster on track, just "felt" hard.

I want something that will get the car lower than standard, but not quite as low as the cup racer. was looking at a bump steer reduction kit, and uprated arb and camber shims, so want something good lol.

 

[Dan R]

There is nothing wrong with the AST's mate each to their own opinion.
H&R's are way way too soft!!!

 

[Bazzon]

I love our ASTs but i think ours are the hardest on the forum Fred especially loved them!

 

[mbarnes]

lol. Think hr said their coilovers were 55nm or similar and ast are 80 odd. The main guy from ast today said their one way adjustable ones can be rebuilt as 3way with remote res for about 1.5k so not too bad. Means i could get asts then upgrade to 3ways later if required. Ast also said they have a few rally 197s seeing success.

 

[Icarus]

Do you have the kit and the know how to make use of a 3 way adjustable setup?

If not then there's no point having it as you'll either have it setup once and leave it or c**k it up trying to make it better.

Nothing wrong with single way adjustables, or a fixed rate damper if they're correct. We run fixed rates on the super endurance car and I do on the super cup. I've got a few different inserts should varying rates be required.

Cheers
M

 

[mbarnes]

cheers icarus. It would only be set up once but would be done properly but i know what you are saying about the amount of adjustability i would actually need once it was set. Single ways would be fine as long as the bits not adjustable are ok to start with and just worry these "kits" dont use much input about the cars. Was reading about a company in ppc magazine that make coilovers but ask for your corner weights and loads of other details and i just worry that some companies chuck out kits without thinking about the actual car. Icarus do you use standard cup car struts etc? They are height adjustable arent they? And do bilstein make the dampers?

Would they work on a standard car? Or do hubs etc have to be changed?

 

[Fred@BTM]

H&R's aren't too soft! have a word with the Bilstein engineers Dan, they'll put you right

 

[Dan R]

u

H&R's aren't too soft! have a word with the Bilstein engineers Dan, they'll put you right

ur seriously trying to tell me a H&R car would be quicker round a track than an AST setup one would be??? LMAO

 

[Fred@BTM]

i could drive a H&R car quicker than i could an AST one!

 

[Inferno]

Suspension set up is a very personal thing, what suits one driver's style will not suit another's.

 

[Dan R]

Suspension set up is a very personal thing, what suits one driver's style will not suit another's.

i couldnt agree more. I drove burps car on H&R's and i thought they were too soft. Too much movement and roll on turn in.

 

[franx]

H&R are not for track (although?) when pushing to the limits.Maybe a bit soft indeed. But this set recommended by a LOT of people brings me a smile on every thrash run i do.

i do'nt think H&R drivers do them for the "looks" as stated before

H&R is definately one of the best out there , keeping the 800 (900?) pound price in mind. Hardly a price for "the looks" .. I outrun almost anything i encounter in curves with this setup (i've got H&R)

You'll be sooooo sick of your car when having a suspensionset which is too hard, believe me. I find the H&R's also to get a bit tiring on B roads , almost wishing for something softer but that's a no go. This set is RIGHT on the limit.

KEEP THAT IN MIND when wanting "hard" setup suspensions.. they will really get on your nerves believe me/us

 

[Jay Payne]

i couldnt agree more. I drove burps car on H&R's and i thought they were too soft. Too much movement and roll on turn in.

Espcialy the back, underrsteer city!

Too hard for B roads, too soft for track imo. Waste of time having them. Thinking back now my car was better on the apex springs and 100k shocks.

Im AST'd up and now happy as tramp in a resturants bin

 

[sideways danny]

I love our ASTs but i think ours are the hardest on the forum Fred especially loved them!

FMP_s old set? properly amazing setup.

I know what Fred means about normal AST setup but IMO he's going the wrong way. The rear needs stiffening, not the front softening. You achieve a similar balance improvement but the reduction in roll by stiffening makes the whole thing more confidence inspiring.

I have other issues with H&R not to do with ride or handling. I've found a lot of faulty ones

 

[Craig]

i loved my H&Rs god i miss them

 

[mbarnes]

so is the choices between H&R and AST then, or are there other options.

obviously the 197 is a bit rarer at present in the tuning world, so it might all be different on this car, but peoples opinions are very valid and i am grateful

 

[MistaT]

Do they convert the rear to coilover and do away with the springs on the beam? I seem to remember the top end ASTs do that, that alone would make a nice difference!

 

[ForceIndia]

Do they convert the rear to coilover and do away with the springs on the beam? I seem to remember the top end ASTs do that, that alone would make a nice difference!

Yep, but I've been told a few companies do (I thought AST were unique in that respect).

 

[MistaT]

I'm sure AST would revalve the front dampers to suit some softer springs, that's the whole beauty of buying decent kit! Buy the AST single point adjustable stuff and see how it goes i say

I've not seen any others that convert the rear to proper coilovers?

Also how are the top mounts modified? As i see it the current rear strut top mounts aren't very substantial, not sure they would be sturdy enough to take the force of the springs as well as the dampers?

 

[mbarnes]

these are the ast coilovers. these are the 3 way, but the fitment and features (except remote res) are the same on the one way kit.

compared to the H&R which seems to keep normal spring? not sure how the rear is adjustable with this setup?

http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=2411&pic=3

or this one?

http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=2442

 

[MistaT]

On the rear of the "normal" kits a threaded fitting bolts onto the rear lower spring pan on the torsion beam and allows you to adjust the ride height.

The AST setup is far superior on that department, much more resolution on the ride height adjustment(leverage ratio is virtually 1:1 on AST, looks more like 5:1 as std) for corner weighing, as well as more accurate spring control i'd have thought.

 

[mbarnes]

ah i see. so they are all height adj just the AST have a better way of doing it.

gotcha

 

[MistaT]

yep! the spring control should be better on the ASTs also because as standard the rubber bush on the bottom of the damper is isolating the damper from the beam, whereas on the AST the spring is over the damper with what looks like a much more solid bush/joint at the bottom and a solid top mount. Plus they are inverted also!

 

[Jay Payne]

standard spring location gives a ratio of just over 2:1

 

[Jay Payne]

172 AST's

 

[ForceIndia]

I'm sure AST would revalve the front dampers to suit some softer springs, that's the whole beauty of buying decent kit! Buy the AST single point adjustable stuff and see how it goes i say

I've not seen any others that convert the rear to proper coilovers?

Also how are the top mounts modified? As i see it the current rear strut top mounts aren't very substantial, not sure they would be sturdy enough to take the force of the springs as well as the dampers?

Can't remember everyone that can do this, but I know GAZ (not that I would ever recommend them!) do, and one or 2 others. Icarus mentioned that he'd done some research and found 2 or 3 other companies that do them.

 

[mbarnes]

cheers guys. this is what i was after. its useful to know what one setup has that another doesnt.

sounds like the AST kit is just that little bit more considered? maybe im wrong.

Burp, are they yours? any comments?

 

[Jay Payne]

Yes they are mine.

Personaly I like the way they drive. Ive driven two 1*2's fitted with them. Ive only driven my car a short distance with them on and they are not set up in anyway. Loads of weird wheel angles atm. Booked in for a full setup on the 1st.

They ride very well for coilovers and are very well made.

If your serious and money isnt an issue then id get a set. Curtis at Powerstation can build you a set however you want them so all this stuff about too soft or too hard isnt a problem coz he can change damper and spring rates etc.

Ive not heard of anyone having a set on a 197. If your the first then im sure he would be very helpfull in getting you what you want

 

[mbarnes]

a few rally cars etc are running them so i wouldnt be the first although might be the first road/track car. I know what i want from an end use type of way but would not know what i wanted from spring or damping way. I am sure they could help though.

God then i am onto camber angles and toe arent i lol.

 

[Fred@BTM]

FMP_s old set? properly amazing setup.

I know what Fred means about normal AST setup but IMO he's going the wrong way. The rear needs stiffening, not the front softening. You achieve a similar balance improvement but the reduction in roll by stiffening makes the whole thing more confidence inspiring.

I have other issues with H&R not to do with ride or handling. I've found a lot of faulty ones

rear was on max! this was fmp's old stuff yeah, front is too hard again IMO

nothing wrong with H&R, very good all rounders

 

[J 5 LEE]

I'm also looking at getting ast. I'll prob go with sportline 2 with adjustable top mounts

 

[Dan R]

Yep, but I've been told a few companies do (I thought AST were unique in that respect).

They were on the 182 other than the cup racer setup. AST made the first rear coilovers for road setup

 

[Dan R]

rear was on max! this was fmp's old stuff yeah, front is too hard again IMO

nothing wrong with H&R, very good all rounders

too hard for you, you mean

 

[Fred@BTM]

if you want to put it that way then yeah, but i'm not the only person "in the game" to think it