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20VT Clio & 9-5 HOT
BB tuning sold there Black 255 bhp Turbo a while back for £15,000 or so the story goes that was running around 16psi boost I think.
They have a low pressure turbo at the moment running about 9psi boost on standard valver internals that is running about 195-200 bhp match to a standard valver box.
However the limiting factor on the power output is the Gearbox, they run a standard williams box for transmission but this can handle only about 250bhp and about 250ftlb of torque. If they could find another decent gearbox to handle more power they could see 300bhp upwards with ease.
LOL @ Nicole Read, Fred, or should I say Frederica you gonna get a slap next time sucker!
Anyway, Mr Chav is spot on. It needs a bit of running in but my high boost valver (holds at around 15/16psi) runs an estimated 250bhp/250lbft. The more important thing is that its FQ - as in Evo FQ300. But I can confirm what Ivan says, my feeling driving it is that there would be little point tuning it beyond 250bhp as it would be a waste, the fwd chassis just cant use that sort of power. About the only reason to go for 300bhp (which the lump will take) is for quarter miling. not ruling out that sort of power, but it would only be worth doing for drag racing. The engine wouldnt be running an outrageous state of tune to knock out 300, it could be done to the lump as it is, with just a bigger set of injectors and possibly a new fuel pump. The T28 turbo should be good for a few more psi of boost. It would still be useable power anyway, but the limiting factor will be the clutch and gearbox definitely. Im onto a kevlar semi-paddle clutch which Im still running in at the moment (or when I get it back from the body shop). I run a standard Williams box but blew that and so Im onto my second one. I think blowing the last one was just bad luck though, I still feel the clutch is the weak point, if that can be sorted out to comfortably handle say 300-350lbft of torque, that would be spot on. As it is 250-275lbft is what itll take at the moment AFAIK.
Anyway, just in case anyone was wondering why my turbo beast has been off the road, its not been engine problems, just a long long time at the bodyshop having a lot of work done. But believe me a 250bhp turbo Clio is CRAZY fast.
I would love to have that supercharger on me williams... tho i think it would be needing some higher gearing
Dont understand why u would rather have a turbo over a supercharger tho - they are more efficiant and sound awsome! Turbos just make pissy noises, lag and then blow up!! he he
Simple answer, to increase power using a turbo all you do is increase the pressure the actuator valve opens at, which is about a 2 minute job.
To increase power using a Supercharger you have to change the gear of the supercharger about an 1 hour job maybe.
Now the BB tuning turbo starts to spin up aroung 2000rpm which makes it very usable.
The pissy noise can be solved but fitting a recirculating dump valve which is more efficent anyway.
Get it set up right - job done!
I know that many people that mess about altering boost on turbos like its a on/off switch.. it causes no end of problems and possible damage to the engine etc
True, a well set-up turbo works well but te whole point of a supercharger is "that its more efficiant". It may not work at the same boost levels of a turbo but generally has similar power increases
Yerr also the supercharger runs off the crank thus sapping power from the engine, Turbo runs off exhaust gases not sapping power.
Personally I would have a turbo even with the lag cause they kick arse others prefer the S/C, each to their own.
And the damaging the engine can be achieved through both forced induction systems, you just cant go running the engine on a higher boost pressure as you need to know the engine is capable of running that PSI.
Take the old R5GTT, alot of people modded these badly by fitting a different actuator and raising the boost without thinking about lowering the compression first and uprating fuel pressure etc.
The Jinx
The other advantage of SC over Turbo is that because the SC is always on boost, there is no sudden whack of stress on the engine, like there is with the turbo. Thus reducing potential for damage.
Which is probably why the germans and Jaguar use them.
One of the original turbo-nutter rally cars did have a supercharger and turbo setup, but I dont think it was the Maxi.
LOL yeah a SC might be working all the time, shame it robs power off the crank and then runs out of puff once you hit any decent revs. The nature of a blower is that it works well at lower rpm and becomes inefficient at higher revs. The turbo is the opposite. Hence the reason why with cars like that old Lancia (was it the 037? I cant remember) or the Nissan March Turbo, both bi-charged rally cars, you get the best of both worlds, the blower brings in the heavy torque almost from idle, the turbo takes over further up the revs when the blower gives up and starts to restrict the intake charge. The only advantage a blower has is that there is no lag because its directly driven. Nowadays though, turbo lag isnt such an issue, modern turbo design and hybrid conversions of old models ensure that turbos spin up pretty quickly.
I dont drive around at 2000 revs all day long, hence I dont want or need a supercharger. And if given a choice between a shed load of torque low down or high up, Ill take high up - I have enough problems getting off the line cleanly as it is and I want the power and torque to still be there once Im cruising in 5th at 140!
G man - I didnt know superchargers made any noise at all apart from the gear whine. My turbo Clio definitely chatters and so does my Nissan 200, they twitter so much youd think there was a bird nesting in the engine bay. The chattering/twittering noise comes when you let off and close the throttle. Its always there with a turbo, just that on a factory car with an airbox you dont hear it. With an open filter the sound of the compressor wheel is released.
BTW its a T28 hybrid and the whole reason I did a turbo conversion was precisely because I had *already* wrecked all four pistons so a new low comp set went in anway.
Clio 172 cup
Not sure who does the superchargers for the 16v but they probably arnt cheap, hence the conversion is very rare
The turbo conversion cost 5k for the low boost set up and 7k+ for the high
No offence to anyone who has paid for this conversion, as this is what you have to pay for the ultimate clio, but for those prices I see it as such a waste of money given that the more usable power the turbo unit gives you can not be used to its full potential in a front wheel drive car
lets face it you can buy a 250bhp renault 5 turbo for less money
and for the same money your talking a full 350bhp specd pulsar with 4x4 that would piss over a clio turbo, but each to there own
No idea what times as Ive not quarter miled it at all much to my dismay, its been off the road for the last few months for a load of bodywork, ever since I finally got it all working spot on. As soon as its out Ill go quarter miling if the weathers ok, Im expecting 1/4 mile ET mid to low 13s, 0-60 somewhere in the 5s, 0-100 around 12 seconds. Difficult to tell cos Ive never timed it but Ive timed, watched and driven plenty of standard valvers and Williams and my own when it used to run nitrous last year, and it is far quicker than any of those. The only modern benchmark I could compare it with is a standard UK Scooby WRX, the brand new ones, and that is a total slug compared to my Clio in every respect.
Raiderman - interesting (and valid) point about it being what you have to pay to get that kind of performance out of a Clio and basically not being able to use the extra potential that the turbo conversion still has beyond 250bhp. Yes you can buy a 250bhp Renault 5 for less money but IMHO - and no offence to R5 owners, I think theyre great little motors - but to me driving around in an R5 that cost me any more than a grand would be crazy. However fast it was, an R5 just isnt a lot of car for your money. Like an Uno Turbo really except a Renault so a lot cooler.
And yes you could have a Pulsar, but I think theyre ugly and dont like cars that only come in black red or white. For the amount of money Ive spent I could have had a couple of Scoobies. But as you say, each to their own! My aim has always been to go as far as its possible to go with my Clio and with a turbo conversion, I shortcut a lot of time and expense to get a hugely powerful Clio which still drives like an everyday car, in fact the only compromise is that the fuel economy is absolutely shocking if you drive flat stick everywhere - must be around 10-15 mpg. Another point to remember is that I had never intended to sell my valver so the usual considerations about how much you will get back for it eventually, dont really apply. The way I look at it is that its a lot cheaper than a brand new Scooby, its a lot faster and its the car Ive always driven and always wanted.
Monaco 172
The way i look at it.......
my mate spent well over £30,000 on a 106 possibly was and still is the best modifyed car i have ever seen not everyones cup of tea i know but in my opinion a work of art.
when we were out and about in it we always got stopped by random people asking about it and one of those questions was.....how much?
when we said £30,000 the reply always was why spend £30,000 on a 106 you couldve bought a porshe for that
his reply to that was "then we wouldnt be having this conversation"
thats the way i look at it if there werent people out there doing turbo conversions and mad bodykits then world would be a much more boring place!
so respect to you Nick Read for having the bottle to spend your well earned ££££ on your clio.
look forward to seeing it run at the pod or if u go to any shows next year!
The Jinx
A supercharger kit would cost in the region of £2k DIY or £3k fitted as a basic price. Lowered compression and oil breather crankcase etc would bump this up to a max (I reckon) of about £4k.
And id put money on it that this conversion would be more useable than a 250bhp turno conversion.
You may yield less power, but with a torque profile similar to that of the standard engine, it would be a lot more useful, and less stressful.
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