AST vs KWv2

[964]

Hi

Anyone have any first hand experience on both of these setups?

Car will not be a full time track car so it would be nice to dial it back for road use if needed.

I have KW Clubsport on another car so am used to KW kit but I hear good things about AST.

How are AST for rebuilds or support?

What is best for the track?

Cheers

Lee

 

[Hugo-]

From what i've read/heard AST are a bit of a compromise for the road. Mainly just a track set-up.

People seem to rave about the KW set-up for both road and track.

Coilovers are mainly down to personal opinion, what one likes, another might not. You really need to drive/be driven in a car with each and make your decision from there.

 

[964]

From what i've read/heard AST are a bit of a compromise for the road. Mainly just a track set-up.

People seem to rave about the KW set-up for both road and track.

Coilovers are mainly down to personal opinion, what one likes, another might not. You really need to drive/be driven in a car with each and make your decision from there.

Thanks, a pal of mine has AST, so will get a run out with him at some point.

If the KW is a compromise for both road and track I will go that route which would work better for me as I know someone who works there.

Cheers

 

[shiftspark]

There are lots of threads on these, just have a quick search

 

[D4N13L]

I have been in a fair few different set ups on road, ast's, fk's, h&r's and kw. I would personally go for kw or h&r, would be a tough choice though

 

[Fletcher]

IIRC Brown Bear has run/driven both set-ups.

H&R's are great for road use. No adjustment, so maybe not the best for track use mind.

 

[964]

I have been in a fair few different set ups on road, ast's, fk's, h&r's and kw. I would personally go for kw or h&r, would be a tough choice though

Thanks, interesting.

What were your favourite?

 

[recaro182]

Lee, AST's on here are a bit marmite, people love them or hate them. From reading threads before getting mine, it seems the early ones were too hard at the front, but mine aren't like this at all. I run a fairly stiff spring track setup and still find them great on the road.

Having said that, I haven't heard any bad words about the KW's, but I haven't experienced them either.

I'll come take you out soon mate.

 

[964]

Lee, AST's on here are a bit marmite, people love them or hate them. From reading threads before getting mine, it seems the early ones were too hard at the front, but mine aren't like this at all. I run a fairly stiff spring track setup and still find them great on the road.

Having said that, I haven't heard any bad words about the KW's, but I haven't experienced them either.

I'll come take you out soon mate.

look forward to it

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

ASTs are fine on the road for me, yes a bit hard but what do you expect.

Simply awesome on the track though (mine are set up properly too!)

Cant comment on the KWs though, although I've heard they are very good too.

 

[964]

IIRC Brown Bear has run/driven both set-ups.

H&R's are great for road use. No adjustment, so maybe not the best for track use mind.

Thanks, I think that will rule the H&R's out.

 

[964]

ASTs are fine on the road for me, yes a bit hard but what do you expect.

Simply awesome on the track though (mine are set up properly too!)

Cant comment on the KWs though, although I've heard they are very good too.

OK lots of positive comments on the AST.

They look superb too.

Whats the adjustment like?... KW is a bit fiddly.

 

[recaro182]

Whats the adjustment like?... KW is a bit fiddly.

Much easier than the adjustment on the KW's we had on the M Coupes mate.

 

[964]

Much easier than the adjustment on the KW's we had on the M Coupes mate.

thanks Chris, where did you have yours set up?

 

[recaro182]

JMS set them up, a small outfit on here based in Chertsey, very knowledgeable guys with the RS's.

Look at http://www.cliosport.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?97-JMS-Automotive or speak to Tom@JMS on here if you need info.

 

[964]

JMS set them up, a small outfit on here based in Chertsey, very knowledgeable guys with the RS's.

Look at http://www.cliosport.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?97-JMS-Automotive or speak to Tom@JMS on here if you need info.

Cool do they have a Geo ramp?

 

[D4N13L]

Thanks, interesting.

What were your favourite?

I would go for the kw's if i was choosing agin

 

[ForceIndia]

I've owned both. KW's are better, and by a good margin. And much easier to adjust the damping as well.

 

[964]

I would go for the kw's if i was choosing agin

thanks

 

[964]

I've owned both. KW's are better, and by a good margin. And much easier to adjust the damping as well.

Thanks, much appreciated.

 

[Kam.]

AST are very hard damped out the box. Personally if I was buying them for a road and occasional track car then I would get them with softer springs and look into them valving them softer too.

 

[964]

AST are very hard damped out the box. Personally if I was buying them for a road and occasional track car then I would get them with softer springs and look into them valving them softer too.

I went out in Recaro182's ph1 with AST earlier and found that fine for the road, the rear was set to full hard also.

Whats the cost of the AST?

Ive heard that KW are easier to deal with for customer service, so that might be a deciding factor also.

 

[Tom@JMS]

Ive heard that KW are easier to deal with for customer service, so that might be a deciding factor also.

I haven't had any dealings with KW CS personally so can't comment.

In terms of AST the service is fairly unreal, Curtis Serviced, Re-valved and re-sprung my personal set for my race car project and had them back to me within 3 days. Tony and Jay received similar service with their ph1 race car.

Both products are excellent if I am honest, but for me it is the speed and approachability of the AST aftersales care that makes them attractive (that said, as above I have nothing to compare it with in terms of KW). The kits can also be tailored to your requirements in terms of driving style (balance between US & OS) and application (road, trackday, race, rally) etc.

That being said, there are people that I suspect experienced some of the early AST kits (such as Warren) that were not ready to be sold as a finished kit; with problems such as poorly chosen springs weights and cr@p quality helper springs.

Cool do they have a Geo ramp?

No, because to be quite frank we can't afford the kit I would want (yet) However we do have access to a local setup that we use instead.

 

[Gray]

Having driven on both set ups and running KW v2's for 30,000 miles road, track, euro trips etc. I can honestly say the KWs are a very very good set up out of the box. From my experiance KW get the vote from me.

 

[964]

I haven't had any dealings with KW CS personally so can't comment.

In terms of AST the service is fairly unreal, Curtis Serviced, Re-valved and re-sprung my personal set for my race car project and had them back to me within 3 days. Tony and Jay received similar service with their ph1 race car.

Both products are excellent if I am honest, but for me it is the speed and approachability of the AST aftersales care that makes them attractive (that said, as above I have nothing to compare it with in terms of KW). The kits can also be tailored to your requirements in terms of driving style (balance between US & OS) and application (road, trackday, race, rally) etc.

That being said, there are people that I suspect experienced some of the early AST kits (such as Warren) that were not ready to be sold as a finished kit; with problems such as poorly chosen springs weights and cr@p quality helper springs.



No, because to be quite frank we can't afford the kit I would want (yet) However we do have access to a local setup that we use instead.

Thanks Tom, sounds like you get looked after.

A place that look after another car for me have been trying to speak with AST without any luck for weeks about the setup of a customers race car. This and the fact that I sent AST an email without response weeks ago about a kit tells me pretty much all I need to know, which is a shame as it looks like nice kit.

Chris (Recaro 182) speaks highly of you so I will pop over at some point and talk about what Im doing with the ph1, Im sure I will use you guys for some track prep.

Cheers

Lee

 

[964]

Having driven on both set ups and running KW v2's for 30,000 miles road, track, euro trips etc. I can honestly say the KWs are a very very good set up out of the box. From my experiance KW get the vote from me.

Thanks Gray, Im pretty sure this is the way Im going to go now. Does the kit come with monoball top mounts?

 

[Tom@JMS]

Not a problem. Your right about emails though, Curtis does not, ever, ever reply to my emails - so I just pick up the dog and bone. Things seem to happen quickly then!

I had another customers kit delivered to me personally by him about 2 weeks ago as the shipment from Germany had come in late on a Friday and the car was due for a hill climb the next day, can't complain if I'm honest!

 

[Kam.]

Thanks Tom, sounds like you get looked after.

A place that look after another car for me have been trying to speak with AST without any luck for weeks about the setup of a customers race car. This and the fact that I sent AST an email without response weeks ago about a kit tells me pretty much all I need to know, which is a shame as it looks like nice kit.

Chris (Recaro 182) speaks highly of you so I will pop over at some point and talk about what Im doing with the ph1, Im sure I will use you guys for some track prep.

Cheers

Lee

Curtis has been away in Dubai working on some cars out there.

I went out in Recaro182's ph1 with AST earlier and found that fine for the road, the rear was set to full hard also.

Whats the cost of the AST?

Ive heard that KW are easier to deal with for customer service, so that might be a deciding factor also.

I think its down to personal preference on ride. For a daily I like it a little softer, or prefer to use tender springs to absorb the harsh bumps. Price from us for the Clio Sportline 1 is £1500.
KW V2 Coilovers are £400 cheaper..I think slightly better for road, but AST perform better the harder the car is pushed..

 

[964]

AST perform better the harder the car is pushed..

Is this from experience?

Regarding Curtis being away on Business.... my customers would leave me in a flash if that was my excuse for not getting back to someone. KW has a support structure deeper than 1 person which is exactly the reason that Im leaning towards KW.

I know the MD of KW, who was emailing me back at 11pm last night, but even if he was away there are plenty of people to deal with his work load.

A real shame because I really like the look of the AST product.

 

[Gray]

unfortunately the KW set-up does not come with any form of top mounts, you use the originals on the car.

but there are companies who can supply different top mounts... AST, Mark Fish, Compbrake etc.

 

[Kam.]

Is this from experience?

Regarding Curtis being away on Business.... my customers would leave me in a flash if that was my excuse for not getting back to someone. KW has a support structure deeper than 1 person which is exactly the reason that Im leaning towards KW.

I know the MD of KW, who was emailing me back at 11pm last night, but even if he was away there are plenty of people to deal with his work load.

A real shame because I really like the look of the AST product.

KW are massive in comparison so if you are only wanting to work with a big company with a massive infrastructure then AST is not for you. AST UK is currently only one person distributing their products. If you understand this you can plan accordingly or buy through one of the AST Uk suppliers who do answer their phones and email.
From experience I find twin tube shocks from high quality places like KW are fantastic at low speed vs monotubes but monotube designs come into their own for high speed and as the dampers are worked hard and build up heat. For a pure road car I would not hesitate on slapping on a set of KW V2's or Bilstein B14 coilovers but if going on track then I want a higher performance damper unit and stiffer springs, which out the box the KW does not have. I find when running trackday tyres the road optimised spring rates are too soft and you get scubbage when pushing. AST's are lighter too which is important to me for my trackcars.

Kev

 

[ian-speedy]

Have you tried contacting AST direct , they are made in Holland and they all speak perfect english over there , give them a ring and say your interested but the UK dealer is not helping you and you want to buy them direct , 0031 4020 74 620.

I have just ordered Reiger suspension from Holland , I was looking at the AST but the hassle of getting them , and then fixing them if needed put me right off

 

[964]

KW are massive in comparison so if you are only wanting to work with a big company with a massive infrastructure then AST is not for you. AST UK is currently only one person distributing their products. If you understand this you can plan accordingly or buy through one of the AST Uk suppliers who do answer their phones and email.
From experience I find twin tube shocks from high quality places like KW are fantastic at low speed vs monotubes but monotube designs come into their own for high speed and as the dampers are worked hard and build up heat. For a pure road car I would not hesitate on slapping on a set of KW V2's or Bilstein B14 coilovers but if going on track then I want a higher performance damper unit and stiffer springs, which out the box the KW does not have. I find when running trackday tyres the road optimised spring rates are too soft and you get scubbage when pushing. AST's are lighter too which is important to me for my trackcars.

Kev

Thanks Kev, interesting comments on damper performance.

I get really good deals on KW kit and have a clubsport setup on another car. I'm waiting for a price on the AST setup and then will make a decision.

Cheers

Lee

 

[shiftspark]

Kev, slightly ot but would you recommend Kw 2 over Ast for a hillclimb car as the speeds are lower and only short runs so heat build up is not an issue ?
Ta

 

[Kam.]

Kev, slightly ot but would you recommend Kw 2 over Ast for a hillclimb car as the speeds are lower and only short runs so heat build up is not an issue ?
Ta

Well the AST will have stiffer valved damping which will control weight transition better but using monotube dampers would be less critical in your situation. You have to weigh up your budget. KW are £400 cheaper which could go towards a set of top mounts..

 

[Tony Hunter]

Curtis is always very busy,sometimes when we phone him he's in Jamaca,Spain,USA,but is always willing to help if he can over the phone.We just plan anything we need doing around his busy diary.

Does not sound as though you could put up with that,so I guess there not for you.

 

[964]

Does not sound as though you could put up with that,so I guess there not for you.

I shouldnt imagine that they are for anyone who would think that by making an enquiry about a purchase would entitle you to a response.

Its a shame for him, this will be the 3rd suspension kit I have bought this year.

 

[Kam.]

Then ring someone like me for a quote. We sell at the same price. I answer the phone too if I think i'll get a sale I'll sell you another 3

 

[964]

Then ring someone like me for a quote. We sell at the same price. I answer the phone too if I think i'll get a sale I'll sell you another 3

I went onto the AST site filled out a form with an idea of what I wanted and what the plan for my car was but heard nothing, you would think that someone who is trying to grow a business through a distribution model would forward the email on to one of his dealers like you.

I have KW Clubsports now for my other project but I do need to buy something for the Clio. KW have said they may want to develop a KWv3 kit for my car but nothing firm yet.

I have also referred 4 suspension customers to a specialist that I use in the last 6 month and I think you (meaning people in business) need to consider the bigger picture when dealing with customers. A little sale now could lead to a much bigger deal..... sorry for rant

One of my customers is also looking for a setup for his Clio so really its 2 sets.

 

[ForceIndia]

I went onto the AST site filled out a form with an idea of what I wanted and what the plan for my car was but heard nothing, you would think that someone who is trying to grow a business through a distribution model would forward the email on to one of his dealers like you.

I have KW Clubsports now for my other project but I do need to buy something for the Clio. KW have said they may want to develop a KWv3 kit for my car but nothing firm yet.

I have also referred 4 suspension customers to a specialist that I use in the last 6 month and I think you (meaning people in business) need to consider the bigger picture when dealing with customers. A little sale now could lead to a much bigger deal..... sorry for rant

One of my customers is also looking for a setup for his Clio so really its 2 sets.

Might be worth pm'ing drhowser. He has KW competition setup on his 172, I would of thought the cost would be similar to having v3's made bespoke?