Bad Mapping, AFR logs inside.

[john182rs]

Chip - come on, your not exactly stupid? A slagging match on here is like alcoholics in the pub at happy hour.

Ellen - Did you ask them if they could fix the problem and what did they say before you went to some one else?

 

[EllenA]

I did phone the company and i had to go through a couple of people telling me categorically it was not their map was the issue and that i was wrong. When i spoke to whoever mapped it they again said they doubt it was the map but as other possibilities have been ruled out they will take a look at the map. on the back of the conversation where i quoted the numbers, they replied with, no those levels are no where near dangerous for the car you can drive it as you would and not worry about it going kaput..
The said company are now aware of this thread so they can look directly at the readings.
The said person said it is possible at on a very rare occasion that a map can change by a certain percentage on its own accord.. never knew ECUs could alter maps themselves.

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

Here we go again. I'm not taking anyones side but FFS lol.

Im not out to **** any company off that plays fair.

Everyone has a bad day from time to time, even me!! The differnence is, how you deal with it afterwards.

What we have in my first post it cold hard proof that cant be argued with!! To still turn around and say, what ever its fine is just a total total rip off!

Had they said, opps sorry, we made a boo boo, pop down and we will sort it out for you asap would have been the correct way to deal with it. No fobbing her off when the proof is on the table!

 

[Silent_Scone]

I don't mean this offensively but your posts are so heavily steeped in irony it's unreal

I've seen more bad maps from TDF than I have from K-Tec... it's all relative

Sure you have mate. Sure you have.

 

[EllenA]

They are willing to take a look at the car, but that then requires me taking a 3 hour round journey and me then asking someone again to check the map as i no longer trust them.
At this moment in time that is what is going to happen but i have asked to just take a refund and ask someone else to map it.

 

[K-Tec Racing]

We did map this car in March last year, and we checked the AFR logs for when the car was here and it was fine.

We have had a good chat with Ellen this morning, with no problems and asked her to pop down so we can see the car to make sure all is fine at no cost to herself.

Rather than what has been written in the 1st post from the OP we did not say the map/car was 100%, how could we possibly know that without checking it.

However from what Ellen told us there did not seem to be a reason not to drive the car down to us considering it has been running since March 2012, we told her not to worry and we will see her when she books in.

I hope this clears things up,

Thanks

KTR

 

[Silent_Scone]

Sounds about right, took him 3 attempts at mine and it still had an awful flat spot. Just gave up in the end.

Sorry I'm being a bit forthright with it, but what's the point beating around the bush frankly lol.

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

We did map this car in March last year, and we checked the AFR logs for when the car was here and it was fine.

We have had a good chat with Ellen this morning, with no problems and asked her to pop down so we can see the car to make sure all is fine at no cost to herself.

Rather than what has been written in the 1st post from the OP we did not say the map/car was 100%, how could we possibly know that without checking it.

However from what Ellen told us there did not seem to be a reason not to drive the car down to us considering it has been running since March 2012, we told her not to worry and we will see her when she books in.

I hope this clears things up,

Thanks

KTR

That was my point!

 

[EllenA]

I bet Ellen would have said the same about her map for full throttle if it wasnt for the fact that she had this niggle with cold running and had to have it looked into as a result, happy customers doesnt always mean a job well done, sometimes it just means easily pleased customers.

I wouldnt say i was easily pleased chip!

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

We did map this car in March last year, and we checked the AFR logs for when the car was here and it was fine.

We have had a good chat with Ellen this morning, with no problems and asked her to pop down so we can see the car to make sure all is fine at no cost to herself.

Rather than what has been written in the 1st post from the OP we did not say the map/car was 100%, how could we possibly know that without checking it.

However from what Ellen told us there did not seem to be a reason not to drive the car down to us considering it has been running since March 2012, we told her not to worry and we will see her when she books in.

I hope this clears things up,

Thanks

KTR

Just to clear things up- Are you still saying that the full throttle AFR's arent dangerous to the health of the engine?

 

[K-Tec Racing]

OK, so your point was we didn't say what you have written and what we actually said is what we should have said in the first place?

 

[jon_r]

Everyone, It'd be nice if this doesn't turn into a 10 page arguement about who has had what done badly by whom. Firstly, everyone has probably heard your story five times already and secondly the thread is about Ellen and Ktec. It seems Sean (I assume) has put a proposal forward to Ellen to rectify the situation. Hopefuly this will be accepted and the problem can be resolved. Cheers

 

[K-Tec Racing]

Just to clear things up- Are you still saying that the full throttle AFR's arent dangerous to the health of the engine?

How can we possibly know without checking it ourselves? This is our point!

 

[Chip-mk1]

How can we possibly know without checking it ourselves? This is our point!

You can know whether an AFR of 15 at full throttle is healthy or not surely?

 

[TimR26]

I didn't have a map done by TDF however I've owned a car that was done by a company that used to operate up there. Detonating at 3krpm, ign map all over the place, AFR graph replicated that of a mountain range. This caused it to drop a valve at motorway speeds. When I contacted them when i heard it detonating, I was given the same response.

Was that GDI who are now part of Ktec?

 

[Russ_16v]

I did phone the company and i had to go through a couple of people telling me categorically it was not their map was the issue and that i was wrong. When i spoke to whoever mapped it they again said they doubt it was the map but as other possibilities have been ruled out they will take a look at the map. on the back of the conversation where i quoted the numbers, they replied with, no those levels are no where near dangerous for the car you can drive it as you would and not worry about it going kaput..
The said company are now aware of this thread so they can look directly at the readings.
The said person said it is possible at on a very rare occasion that a map can change by a certain percentage on its own accord.. never knew ECUs could alter maps themselves.

We did map this car in March last year, and we checked the AFR logs for when the car was here and it was fine.

We have had a good chat with Ellen this morning, with no problems and asked her to pop down so we can see the car to make sure all is fine at no cost to herself.

Rather than what has been written in the 1st post from the OP we did not say the map/car was 100%, how could we possibly know that without checking it. However from what Ellen told us there did not seem to be a reason not to drive the car down to us considering it has been running since March 2012, we told her not to worry and we will see her when she books in.

I hope this clears things up,

Thanks

KTR

I think it's these two points which are causing the confusion?

 

[K-Tec Racing]

You can know whether an AFR of 15 at full throttle is healthy or not surely?

Well that is pretty obvious but we are not talking about a theoretical AFR we are being asked about a specific one on a specific car for which we have not seen for 11 months, there is a big difference.

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

Was that GDI who are now part of Ktec?

Yes mate, GDI was Danny from 519 and Andy from K-tec

 

[Chip-mk1]

Well that is pretty obvious but we are not talking about a theoretical AFR we are being asked about a specific one on a specific car for which we have not seen for 11 months, there is a big difference.

But this a specific AFR on the specific car that this data log was taken from, I fail to see what bit you think is theoretical?

 

[K-Tec Racing]

Guys we will wait to see the car before adding any more to this thread, otherwise we are just wasting time going round in circles.

Ellen, we will see you when you bring the car down and reimburse you for the fuel it that helps. We will also run through everything while you are here so you can see exactly what we are doing.

David.

 

[EllenA]

I spoke to a couple of people before speaking to whoever mapped the car regarding the map.
I had a 5 minute argument with a muppet who was telling me it wasnt the map until i started quoting numbers, which then it turned out he didnt actually have a clue about mapping and the numbers a healthy car should be running at only then, did he put me through to the mapper.

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

Guys we will wait to see the car before adding any more to this thread, otherwise we are just wasting time going round in circles.

Ellen, we will see you when you bring the car down and reimburse you for the fuel it that helps. We will also run through everything while you are here so you can see exactly what we are doing.

David.

Awesome, Finally! If only you'd done that the first time she'd called!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Guys we will wait to see the car before adding any more to this thread, otherwise we are just wasting time going round in circles.

Ellen, we will see you when you bring the car down and reimburse you for the fuel it that helps. We will also run through everything while you are here so you can see exactly what we are doing.

David.

That sounds a fair offer, shame it took a name and shame post on a forum to get the basic customer service she should have been able to expect in the first place though while being given the run around by an employee who clearly had no clue what they were even talking about TBH!

Still, alls well that ends well etc.

 

[Pedro19]

I did phone the company and i had to go through a couple of people telling me categorically it was not their map was the issue and that i was wrong. When i spoke to whoever mapped it they again said they doubt it was the map but as other possibilities have been ruled out they will take a look at the map. on the back of the conversation where i quoted the numbers, they replied with, no those levels are no where near dangerous for the car you can drive it as you would and not worry about it going kaput..
The said company are now aware of this thread so they can look directly at the readings.
The said person said it is possible at on a very rare occasion that a map can change by a certain percentage on its own accord.. never knew ECUs could alter maps themselves.

What a load of absolute boll*cks! Not tables like Fueling/Timing! Checksum routine is possible but not a main table.

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

What a load of absolute boll*cks! Not tables like Fueling/Timing! Checksum routine is possible but not a main table.

I noticed that too.

What a load of crap.

 

[K-Tec Racing]

This would always be our course of action, we will always try and do our best by our customers no matter how much "stirring" goes on or what is posted on a forum.

Oh and Ellen, we do not have any "muppets" working here, the guys are all very good at their jobs and at the end of the day they are trying to help.

David.

 

[EllenA]

K-Tec - can you reply to my earlier email, cheers.

 

[timmyd]

Ellen, I think you are better off taking it elsewhere, spend some more money on another map, and learn from this.

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

Oh and Ellen, we do not have any "muppets" working here, the guys are all very good at their jobs and at the end of the day they are trying to help.

David.

On the mail order side I can see this to be true as your mail order service is amazing.

Mapping however.........

 

[Sir_Dave]

Ellen, I think you are better off taking it elsewhere, spend some more money on another map, and learn from this.

Or, take Ktec up on their current offer, but offer to buy Mike/Chip a KFC if they go along with her to oversee proceedings ...

 

[Chip-mk1]

What a load of absolute boll*cks! Not tables like Fueling/Timing! Checksum routine is possible but not a main table.

Some modern ECU's will push trims into tables as a kind of learn, but not open loop fuelling on a Siemens Sirius, I hope whoever fed her that line wasnt the one who will be doing the mapping. Flol

 

[davo172]

If you are not on the 'IN' crowd or group then you will be slated, its been an on going problem with this forum since the dawn of time.

IF this post is about K-Tec then I personally have nothing bad to say about them, always had top quality service from them on all levels and made some cracking friends too..

I just wish that some people would realise that there are 2 sides to every story, may some one please ask the accused person/s to reply?

THIS is SO true on here !

 

[john182rs]

A wide forum question, why is it that some 'members' insist on coming on here first to moan before asking the company to look at their car again first?

As previously said, K-Tec have offered to take Ellens car in at no cost to herself to have the problem rectified before this thread was even created.

Ive had it where a friend has had to go back after he made a stuff up with the engine yet ktec didnt charge him a penny for it and even gave him fuel money, who else would do this??

 

[Chip-mk1]

Or, take Ktec up on their current offer, but offer to buy Mike/Chip a KFC if they go along with her to oversee proceedings ...

If I wasnt so busy I would offer but no chance at the moment I am afraid.

Really shouldnt be the case that people need a technical minder with them just to get a safe map on their car though anyway!

Hopefully now they know it will be independantly checked afterwards they will do a decent job

 

[Chip-mk1]

A wide forum question, why is it that some 'members' insist on coming on here first to moan before asking the company to look at their car again first?

Some do, but from reading the thread not in this case, she phoned them straight away and was told categorically there was nothing wrong with her car, even though they hadnt seen it, that was their first line, it was only when she started quoting AFR values at them it shocked them into any sort of proper response.

 

[The Boosh!]

Ellen/K-tec, PM me when/if anything needs adding to this - I can't see this going anywhere and the problem is en route to be rectified. Cheers.

 

[The Boosh!]

ECU's now have long term fuel trims, have done for many years.

This allows for variations in engines, fuel pressure, environmental factors, etc etc, thus allowing the manufacturer to send their cars with the same calibration all over the world.

They also have closed loop knock control on the whole, giving long and short term knock correction

this does not change the main fuel and ignition tables but uses the different tables as range variables. Therefore there would not be a need for active checksum calculations.

In the diagnostic equipment you can see the trims and reset them.

On a 172/182 (Sirius 32/34), these are automatically reset when the file is loaded. On the 197/R26 etc you have to manually reset the programmed values.

Over time these trims will adjust the gain and offset of the fueling based on average lambda readings.

On most standalone ECU's you dont have long term fuel trims, but only narrow or wideband closed loop real time lambda control.

Hope this helps.

Bottom Line is we have offered with no agenda to look after Ellen and look at her car.

We dont wish to get into arguments with people on the forum, never have done. It doesnt help us and it doesnt help the club members.

Michael if you wish to discuss any of this please feel free to call us for a chat, we have no issue with you of you helping Ellen, our objective is to get her car sorted to her satisfaction.

Kind regards

KTR

.

 

[Brian]

I have no issue with K-tec either bar the amount of fobbing off the company gave Ellen before she even came to me and then again after.

I respect you now trying to sort the issue out!

With regards to the fuel trims they aren't going to turn a 12.8:1 to a 15:1 are they!

.