Basic spec Renaultsport Clio Race Series

[Bluebeard]

Is anyone interested? I know there are some talks being held today about it with the powers that be.

I'm talking a very basic entry level clio 2.0, with the relevant safety equipment.

I was talking to Tonys wife at the weekend and it's very appealing to me as the cars are so cheap now that they're basically disposable. If you crash it, just buy another one and swap your cage over. Hey presto you're back racing next weekend.

I've started this thread to gague peoples thoughts on the situation and see if there's any real serious interest. (I appreciate this is cliosport.net so any real interest registered in here can be narrowed down to about 20%...)

My thoughts on the car personally are...

Any 2.0 Clio from 2000-2006, Trophy's excluded.
Standard engine and inlets with any airbox/airfilter mod you wish.
Removal of aircon if you wish.
Standard shocks. Cup or not, it's up to you but no Trophy dampers.
Any lowering springs you wish.
15 inch wheels and tyres with a choice of regulation tyre.
Any exhaust as lets face it, nobody wants to pay £1200 for a standard renault example.
Interior can be stripped but full working dash must remain (to stop people refitting cut out carcasses) and no metal is to be cut out of the shell.
All the relevant safety equipment.

I reckon I could buy a car and get that for less than £2000 using the spares I have at work and the recent £500 182 I bought. If you said £3k and had a budget of £1500 for a car, that still leaves you £1500 for getting it ready. £3k for essentially a ready to race car is a bloody bargain imo.
Bearing in mind you can sell the original 16 inch wheels, the interior, the Aircon parts, all of that money would come back into your pot!

Anyone else have any thoughts?

 

[Paprika123]

Sounds a lot more appealing than the 750 182 K-Tec series.

 

[Adam G]

Tony knows that I've expressed a keen interest too Daniel. Agree with all the above - airfilter wasn't discussed by us yesterday but I'd be open to discuss, maybe just keep panel filter option in stock airbox. The only other things would be RARB and camber adjustment allowed front and rear by bolts and spacers where appropriate. Allows for a bit of driver adjustment but kept to a minimum and reasonable cost.

 

[Sam@NP]

Very very interested, I've been emailing 750mc about their championship. The only thing wrong with the 750 series is the wheel size. £800 for suspension and ecu is not dear in my mind.

my perfect spec would be;

Minimum weight inc driver 1070kg
No more than 2 way dampers
15 inch
max power 180bhp
nominated dyno
group 1a/b tyres.

Simples

I cannot see the logic of standard suspension, you'll soon find the limits of the chassis and setting up your car is what racing is all about. A set of suspension isn't too dear, especially if you get a supplier in.

 

[Bluebeard]

Tony knows that I've expressed a keen interest too Daniel. Agree with all the above - airfilter wasn't discussed by us yesterday but I'd be open to discuss, maybe just keep panel filter option in stock airbox. The only other things would be RARB and camber adjustment allowed front and rear by bolts and spacers where appropriate. Allows for a bit of driver adjustment but kept to a minimum and reasonable cost.

Where were you yesterday? I tried looking for you then I realised I don't know what you look like so it was a pointless exercise! lol!

 

[Cub.]

I'm keen. I have a few q's but I'll wait until I hear more detail on here from Hunter / others. My primary question would be if you could share with another driver, as that makes it even more appealing to me.

I'm assuming LSD's would be out

 

[Nick172Cup]

Having chatted about it yesterday with Tony, I'd be possibly interested. Though I'd have to 'standardise' my car to suit regs which isn't the end of the world, but would I bother when I could just run with the better class cars in Track Attack?

Probably not.

 

[Bluebeard]

Very very interested, I've been emailing 750mc about their championship. The only thing wrong with the 750 series is the wheel size. £800 for suspension and ecu is not dear in my mind.

my perfect spec would be;

Minimum weight inc driver 1070kg
No more than 2 way dampers
15 inch
max power 180bhp
nominated dyno
group 1a/b tyres.

Simples

I cannot see the logic of standard suspension, you'll soon find the limits of the chassis and setting up your car is what racing is all about. A set of suspension isn't too dear, especially if you get a supplier in.

I see what you're saying ref the suspension, but what's not dear to you is a lot of money to others. You race Porsches ffs so you have a slightly different view of budgeting to most of us! lol.

I'm primarily interested because 90% of racing is about who has the most money. Every series I go and watch it's always the ones with open chequebooks that win. That for me is no fun and if I signed up to this series and it got like that i'd fcuk off never to be seen again. I hate money and what it does to people when competition is involved.

If people want to buy different ECU's and spend lots of money, why not just join Tony and Ash in the French Trophy??

 

[Bluebeard]

I'm keen. I have a few q's but I'll wait until I hear more detail on here from Hunter / others. My primary question would be if you could share with another driver, as that makes it even more appealing to me.

I'm assuming LSD's would be out

Regards to sharing, yes. There's two races per meeting so one person races each race. I'm wanting to do it with Sam.

 

[matt91]

I'd be interested in this, much prefer it to be down to drivers skill instead of how big your bank balance is... I assume a national b would be needed?

 

[Sam@NP]

I see what you're saying ref the suspension, but what's not dear to you is a lot of money to others. You race Porsches ffs so you have a slightly different view of budgeting to most of us! lol.

I'm primarily interested because 90% of racing is about who has the most money. Every series I go and watch it's always the ones with open chequebooks that win. That for me is no fun and if I signed up to this series and it got like that i'd fcuk off never to be seen again. I hate money and what it does to people when competition is involved.

If people want to buy different ECU's and spend lots of money, why not just join Tony and Ash in the French Trophy??

Just because I race Porsches doesn't mean I don't appreciate money or the cost of motorsport. In fact it puts me in a good situation to comment on specs etc.

Tot up the cost of building a 750 car against building a car to compete with Tony, Ian and Ash then tell me 750 is more dear. Motorsport and money will always go hand in hand. The idea of a relatively basic clio is hugely appealing to me because of the potential cost involved, however standard suspension would soon get frustrating trust me.

Two races a meeting is expensive for one driver cheaper for two but do you have enough time for two people to qualify the car at a long circuit like Oulton? 15 minutes including a pit stop and driver change is too tight. Something to bare in mind for the organisers.

Daniel we'd need a seat on runners mate

 

[Bluebeard]

Not you you helmet!! My real life friend called Sam!

 

[Sam@NP]

Not you you helmet!! My real life friend called Sam!

​So lonely

 

[Bluebeard]

​So lonely

I don't know you well enough to crash your car and ruin your afternoon.

 

[Sam@NP]

I don't know you well enough to crash your car and ruin your afternoon.

It's only a clio just throw it away

 

[sbridgey]

I would be interested after I graduate uni, so this time year. Sounds like a great idea Dan.

 

[Brooky182]

I'd be interested will talk to you guys at the Llandow track day.

 

[Chip-mk1]

How are you going to test for standard engine?

 

[2Damnsly Andy]

I'd be up for it but would look to share a car rather than do it all myself as I don't have a massive disposible income currently due to looking at buying another house.

 

[Bluebeard]

How are you going to test for standard engine?

Trust? Why can't we just trust one another?

I appreciate what you were saying yesterday with regards to the unknown 2nd hand engine market, but these engines vary so much in terms of standard power, would a 10bhp difference really matter? (That's a genuine non rhetorical question!) The only way to get noticeable power out of a 1x2 is TB's and Boost and I know i'm no Chip Foose but even I'd be able to tell if they've fitted either of those!

(Just in case, I will volunteer myself for fighting anybody found to be cheating)

 

[McGherkin]

ARB's? Mapping?

 

[Sam@NP]

Trust? Why can't we just trust one another?

I appreciate what you were saying yesterday with regards to the unknown 2nd hand engine market, but these engines vary so much in terms of standard power, would a 10bhp difference really matter? (That's a genuine non rhetorical question!) The only way to get noticeable power out of a 1x2 is TB's and Boost and I know i'm no Chip Foose but even I'd be able to tell if they've fitted either of those!

(Just in case, I will volunteer myself for fighting anybody found to be cheating)

In one make racing 10bhp can make all the difference between two very closely matched drivers. You are always going to get people in motorsport who cheat or are willing to spend a grand for .2 of a second especially in one make racing.

 

[Bluebeard]

In one make racing 10bhp can make all the difference between two very closely matched drivers. You are always going to get people in motorsport who cheat or are willing to spend a grand for .2 of a second especially in one make racing.

Ok, what if one car was making 160bhp as standard and another was making 170 as standard? We all know it's entirely possible thanks to the chumps at Dieppe. Again, that's a genuine question.

I'd like to think it was do-able based on trust. If for example Me, Luke, Scrooge, Rob, Rob, Cub were racing, i'd trust those people 100%.

(I've sort of answered my own question because as I was typing that out I thought ''What if XYZ was racing, I don't trust them as far as I can throw them!'' lol)

 

[McGherkin]

One car is more competitive than the other. Simples.

Ballast to match out the power?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Trust? Why can't we just trust one another?

I appreciate what you were saying yesterday with regards to the unknown 2nd hand engine market, but these engines vary so much in terms of standard power, would a 10bhp difference really matter? (That's a genuine non rhetorical question!) The only way to get noticeable power out of a 1x2 is TB's and Boost and I know i'm no Chip Foose but even I'd be able to tell if they've fitted either of those!

(Just in case, I will volunteer myself for fighting anybody found to be cheating)

If this series goes ahead, I reckon I will be able to guess fairly well some of us that will just happen to get lucky with quick "standard" engines, FLOL

 

[Sam@NP]

Ok, what if one car was making 160bhp as standard and another was making 170 as standard? We all know it's entirely possible thanks to the chumps at Dieppe.

160bhp can try and fiddle it up to 170

170bhp man can have a weight penalty

set a maximum bhp and a nominated rolling road with the organisers having the right to dyno anyones car at any time

Standardised ECUs

Writing regs for an even playing field isn't easy.

 

[Nick172Cup]

It would then mean having a certain rolling roads to prove power, and then having people making plans to add further weight.

Reckon the regs should be set like the Mazda series or whatever its called personally.

 

[Bluebeard]

One car is more competitive than the other. Simples.

Ballast to match out the power?

Then everyone has to travel to get their car rolling roaded at a central/mutual place and it's more expense for everyone.

 

[Chip-mk1]

The more it gets discussed, the more flaws you will find in your "standard 172" plan I fear sadly Daniel.

 

[Bluebeard]

If this series goes ahead, I reckon I will be able to guess fairly well some of us that will just happen to get lucky with quick "standard" engines, FLOL

Then you can guess which ones i'll be knocking out in the car park at 530.

I'm a pretty tolerant bloke when it comes to real life but not when people are stealing from me!!

 

[Sam@NP]

One car is more competitive than the other. Simples.

Ballast to match out the power?

One of the biggest arguments in motorsport is success ballast, how much is equal to a bhp? What is 170 man is slower than 160 man, remove his ballast?

 

[JackD]

I'd be interested, especially as I'm aiming for that kind of spec for my cheap thrills track car anyway. No guarantee but sounds like a good idea

 

[Bluebeard]

The more it gets discussed, the more flaws you will find in your "standard 172" plan I fear sadly Daniel.

It's not my idea mate, (I think it was Tony's?) I'm just keen to see what others like yourself can input to the discussion as I've never raced and the only experience I have of racing is my mate who raced in a 'Anything goes' series which is so far removed from real life it's frightening!

 

[McGherkin]

One of the biggest arguments in motorsport is success ballast, how much is equal to a bhp? What is 170 man is slower than 160 man, remove his ballast?

Testing with a single car, same driver, then using different maps (to vary the BHP output) and different ballast weights until you can work it out. It takes a lot of time to get it right.

 

[Sam@NP]

Testing with a single car, same driver, then using different maps (to vary the BHP output) and different ballast weights until you can work it out. It takes a lot of time to get it right.

​Whos going to pay for it?

 

[McGherkin]

Exactly.

 

[Bluebeard]

The more I think about it, the minimum weight/max bhp could be the answer.

​Covers a lot of areas!

 

[imprezaworks]

Need a car but id be interested

 

[Sam@NP]

Nominated rolling roads are the norm where bhp is limited in motorsport, you dont have to get your car done there you just have to be aware that is where it can be tested if the organisers choose.

750 and a few other clubs are keen on standardised ecu that can be interrogated to see if a car is standard or not.

They are really your only options.

 

[Cub.]

One car is more competitive than the other. Simples.

Ballast to match out the power?

Lol! I have enough ballast to last me a lifetime

Joking aside though, and maybe I am too trusting and naive, but if someone enters with mods to the engine, then its a pretty poor show in a class like this. The whole point is to get it as close and competitive as possible. If you cheat, you're ultimately only cheating yourself. Personally, I'd be entering it for the fun, close quarters jostling of racing and to develop my skills before considering other race classes in the future. As long as I enjoy it, I'm not fussed if I came last or first. Obviously I'd aim for podiums, as racing is about winning, but I wouldn't cheat to get there. If others do, then they would know they were hollow victories and I'm sure they would be found out eventually.