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bb turbo/how quick



  535d / t5 caravelle


alright everyone,got a 16v with 50bhp noz,stripped out etc,top car,well was till cambelt snapped last year,should i get a bb turbo conversion 250bhp,will it not just wheelspin?will it be reliable?any 1/4 mile times out there to back up the bhp figures?top speed?what will one of these things actually beat?m3,scoob sti etc?had any encounters?seems a lot of money if it aint gonna be smokin the big boys!(excuse the phrase)sure some of you guys can advise me in the right direction,look forward to your replies,cant decide whether to do it or get a scoob or an evo and repair the valver and just use it as a trackday car?

o yeah just one more thing i need to mention,need to beat my mate in his mk2 astra turbo 250bhp!!!

cheers
 


Your always going to get a lot of wheelspin in 1st and 2nd gear with that amount of power going through 2 front wheels in such a light car, especially if wet which to be fair is quite regular here in the UK.

Youll never beat these cars mentioned 0-60 wise (Fwd vs 4wd) but speeds after that would be interesting to see if you could effectively put down this amount of HP.

Instead of putting big money for a turbo conversion into your car, would it not be easier buying a turbo car to begin with, like a scoob/evo?? Dont need to worry about traction and internal wise the Jap engines are going to be a lot stronger.

Just a general opinion of course!! Cant beat 4wd, and you cant beat the sound of a scoob boxer engine;)
 
  Titanium 182


no no no! forget that

if your going to do it, go for the maximum they can offer and you can afford

i think 250bhp in a valver and the torque of a turbo, once on the move northing much will hastle you

traction will be a problem away from the lights etc, but with that power you dont need the lower gears as much



speak to nick read on here, hes got a t/c valver
 
  Fiat Coupe 20v turbo


250 bhp would be rampant in such a light car but would this amount of power not ruin the handling? Going round a corner trying to put 160 bhp down is hard enough would you not need a LSD to get anywhere fast?
 


Quote: Originally posted by bill on 24 March 2004

alright everyone,got a 16v with 50bhp noz,stripped out etc,top car,well was till cambelt snapped last year,should i get a bb turbo conversion 250bhp,will it not just wheelspin?will it be reliable?any 1/4 mile times out there to back up the bhp figures?top speed?what will one of these things actually beat?m3,scoob sti etc?had any encounters?seems a lot of money if it aint gonna be smokin the big boys!(excuse the phrase)sure some of you guys can advise me in the right direction,look forward to your replies,cant decide whether to do it or get a scoob or an evo and repair the valver and just use it as a trackday car?
o yeah just one more thing i need to mention,need to beat my mate in his mk2 astra turbo 250bhp!!!
The gearbox will be the week line the Williams box will be better as its got a higher 5th gear for max speeds and is built stronger. Nick read has a 250 turbo I turbo I thinkl but has had some trouble with it. The weak points will be the box (only good for about 200lb torque, Williams is good for ~250lb although it will depend how you drive).

You need bigger ratios to max out totally. Some users have topped out hitting the redline so the box will be the limiter anyway thats about 145mph I think anyway.

It should be good enought o keep with M3 as its got a good power to weight however as the speed build then the hp of one wil pull away although were talkign abotu licence loosing speeds here. Of the mark though you should beat anyhting realy with less than 250hp (kit cars excluded) due to your cars light weight.

Best get a stripped out moded Evo/ scoobie though and drop the clutch on them hard for maximum power. A striped out car like that and 4*4 ligened with a few mods should keep woith the scoobie and be better round the ebsnds depends how much your willing to pay though.

If its max power your after a couple of k worth of bike will kill 90% of supercars never mind S/C 16V or Evos.
 
  Revels Mum & Sister


Fella

Search for a Guy on the forum called Nick Read

He is the Man to talk to. He has had this done!
 
  535d / t5 caravelle


well thanks for your replys guys,im on my 4th gearbox now/next ones 5th!bit expensive at £400 a throw fitted,am i being to harsh?(dont know if im being ripped off?)got different ratios at the min,its always at about 5.5k to 6k revs after every gear change,sh*t hot on the country roads,straight into the power band!bounces off the limiter in 5th at 138,(well was untill the damage!)i think 160 bhp is not to much of a prob to put down on the twistys/roundabout,handles like a demon!

looked on the sidc site (scooby site) keep reading how they have big end /bottom end failure? at about 50-60kmiles,so dont think there as strong/reliable as people think? plus i know of 2 type r scoobs in my area with new engines after 25k! dont get me wrong think there the bizness but would be a bit pissed if that happened to me after spending 12k on one!could i afford to fit the bill?also running costs of these and evos especially are very high,was looking at spending about 10 to 12k on a jap machine,but would defenatley not strip it!Mmm still dont know what to do???need to know how these turbod clios go,1/4 mile on the road etc,more info please chaps!

cheers guys
 
  williams and trophy


times for the turbo clios afaik have yet to be put down...........

from wot iv heard they dont really seem to be the most reliable of modding options........

goin a dif route tho may pay off too, theres a clio round here runnin 178 bhp @ the wheels ............wen its run in im sure it shud fukkin shift lol

and it will prob be a lot more reliable than said turbo mods



all IMO
 


I am running my turbo 16v at the moment. It wont be long b4 I can tell you what it goes like. Mine is not a BB one. I made it myself. I have spent ove 6K on the engine. In my opinion, I would buy a Jap car. Peace of mind that you are not going to be in garage all nite! Mine hasnt missed a beat yet, but I am being very nice to it al at the moment.
 
  20VT Clio & 9-5 HOT


lol. quite possibly true.

no, my gearbox eventually died after a full throttle change damaged it a few months back :(
 
  535d / t5 caravelle


i used to pull a good 140mph in 5th,but as i said got different ratios in my box now,hence 138mph,cant complain over 2mph eh!
 


Yeah was going to suggest TBs, K-tec recently did a car, not sure about the stats and costs though, check the site or search the forum.



What about a tuned 1.4 GTT conversion? Might not have the top end acceleration but over a 1/4 you could devistate.
 


ive been in nicks turbo round the nurburgring, clutch was burnin and had to be uprated when he got back but its feckin fast! i mean scary fast speeds! would leave most cars behind on the open road id say!
 


Simple:

Buy an Evo 3 rs. 1190kg and 225bhp/tonne out the factory.Keep clio as track/fun car

All the tranny is strong and will not need uprating.

Not going to bore people again on how cheap the tunning bits are but as a pointer a full rebuilt engine from New Zealand which is good for 10 1/4s will be just over 2k.
 


Quote: Originally posted by EvoCarl on 25 March 2004


Not going to bore people again on how cheap the tunning bits are but as a pointer a full rebuilt engine from New Zealand which is good for 10 1/4s will be just over 2k.







Where you from?
 
  BMW 320d Sport


Well my turbo valver was kind of BBs customer test car after I blew my engine on nitrous. I was gonna go for a full-on throttle body conversion with a bulletproof bottom end, a proper wild head etc, but I was convinced by the fact that running a turbo Clio didnt really involve much in the way of compromise, seeing as this is also my everyday car, ie, no idling problems, itll pass the MOT with the cat on, doesnt need to be kept in tune or anything.

Of course, turbocharging a valver was a bit of a leap in the dark, so by me thrashing my newly turbocharged valver around and basically driving like a loon for a couple of months, most of the problems that hadnt turned up on BBs prototype happened on mine instead. So far its had serious transmission problems, been through two or three different clutches (think the first was a Helix, then it was a kevlar road clutch then a semi-paddle kevlar job which is in at the moment) and onto its second gearbox. The WIlliams that was in there already had been in throughout the previous year, so I reckon its more likely that all my nitrous-enhanced, full-throttle-gearchanging quarter miling that year had knackered it, not the turbo.

Heat management seemed to be a bit of a problem from my point of view, for some reason it didnt seem to be dumping heat as well as it should, even with an oil cooler and charge cooler rad up front. This problem has been solved with a slight redesign of the front bumper and a copper-cored water rad and for good measure I got a load of louvres punched into the bonnet over the inlet manifold, chargecooler and to the rear of the radiators. The idea was to draw some of the frontal airflow through the rads up and out through the bonnet, rather than all of it going under the engine bay, as well as doubling up as simple heat release mechanism at standstill in traffic as a bit of testing revealed a lot of heat building up very quickly around the chargecooler and filter which took some time to disperse once on the move again.

Some of the problems I had with it cutting out etc when I got back from the Ring after burning the clutch were down to the ECU shutting things down due to either the charge temps getting too high or the fuelling being inadequate for the boost level / charge temp it was running. This was solved with a different fuel pump that still fitted in the original position but had a much better continuous flow rate. I think it was originally destined for Group N Imprezas. The original pump had a good peak flow and was good for momentary bursts of acceleration, but not for continuous on-boost demands.

So there you have it. All the problems are pretty much ironed out now, but the reason I havent quarter miled it yet is because after it was sorted out back at BB last year, I had to immediately snatch it away and get it into the bodyshop for the other mods I wanted doing. It should be back in the next couple of weeks in time for Scotland and the Donny show.

Ive done a lot of quarter miling in my valver over the last few years, and (bearing in mind I havent even driven it myself for almost a year LOL!) when I do run it, Im expecting something a 1/4 mile ET somewhere comfortably in the 13s, hopefully low 13s although Im not sure how much better than that it will run mainly down to traction problems. Terminal speed I estimate would be around 105-115mph. Straight 0-100 probably around 11 or 12 seconds. 0-60 is difficult to say because its so dependent on the driver, and FWD is the worst possible thing for short sprints, but at a guess it runs easy 5.5-6.5 sec without much effort. To get a lot below that would need work, something like slicks would be handy, although at least its naturally a front-heavy car anyway and there isnt the mental trans loss that you get with 4wd and to a lesser extent, RWD.

Power/weight stands at at least 250bhp/ton, seeing as the standard valver only weighs around 980 kg and mine is a lot less than that - I have only two kevlar seats up front that weigh about 5-6kg each, no other interior except carpet and door cards, no spare wheel or cage, and the original wheels are ditched in favour of a set of OZ Chrono Evos which weight around 8-9kg each. WHen I get it on a weighbridge Im hoping for around 930kg.

Once its rolling its very quick, theres a lot of torque there. Obviously standing starts are a problem but unless youre very low down in the revs there is no noticeable turbo lag, the T28 is spinning by 3500 revs anyway, and who drives at less than that in a valver anyway?

As Ben said, and hes one of the few people whos had a ride in it, it struggled round the Nurburgring because of a badly slipping clutch. 911s were going past me fairly easily as I was limping round, but I am absolutely certain that if it had been performing like it did after all the problems were ironed out, it would have destroyed all those 911s easily.

The fastest we got out of it on the autobahn heading into Germany was 140 on the clock which comes out at around 145mph using my GPS speedo on my Snooper. This is on a Williams gearbox with the longer 5th gear and if I remember right, around 6000-6500 revs showing on the counter. In theory I think it could hit a true 150mph on that gearing, but would then run out of revs and hit the limiter.

I love my turbo valver, but if theres one thing that I think needs addressing its the transmission. In its current spec it should hold, but Im aware that it would need only a little rough treatment and it would probably blow. Any more questions?
 


Nick - Do you think it might be better, and probably cheaper in the long run, if you go to someone like Quafe and get them to build you a gearbox capable of taking that sort of abuse?
 
  20VT Clio & 9-5 HOT


fuk me thats the longest reply iv ever seen. i havent even read it yet, ill save it till later!
 
  300bhp MR2 Turbo


Nick, you lucky g/t.

I want a car like that. With a strong clutch/gearbox combo obviously.

Turbo power is so much more fun!
 
  BMW 320d Sport


Yes Barry, a Quaifes what I need and no doubt they could put in an ATB differential as well, but its all money isnt it...better if I could find a tougher box that will drop more or less straight in. Any ideas? Plus theres still always gonna be the clutch problem. It seems to be coping at the moment though.

Adams 16v - LOL I go for quality of posts not quantity and Im a fast typer. Or should that be typist?

Ben when you gonna sort your engine out then mate?
 


i,m close now. with a one off williams hybrid box gripper diff polished gear set and all that uprated bearings and lock rings. this box will hold 500bhp so i,m informed and was not to expensive. i,m looking to run over 350bhp another bb test car. will need more as running i.c.e and rear seats.
 
  535d / t5 caravelle


well cheers for your replies guys and your write up nick,thats the one;),performance sounds spot on(eating porkers),hows it affect the handling do you get a lot of wheelspin in 2nd gear corners etc,if you plant it?the gearbox is of concern,but then again i seem to get through them anyway,when did you get the conversion done mate?do bb now do the conversion with the parts you have had to replace on yours,as they now know of the problems with the conversion or is it still as before?did you look at the k-tec turbo conversion or is it the same one?have you got rid of the noz or is that still an option for a mad blast?!!(or no need)

thanks again
 


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