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Renault Laguna Coupe
Either way youll need to change the brake fluid to get more laps out of them without a cool-down break.
simply changing the pads will not do much for you other than grind your discs that much faster. Pagids and all higher friction coefficient compounds will give you the impression your braking/fading has improved, but thats only because youre eating away at your discs - your choice! Decelerating a car faster can only be achieved by increasing the friction surface = replacing the pads with bigger surface pads implying changing the calipers to larger calipers OR/AND increasing the diameter of the discs so that more leverage is applied when braking. Having upgraded the discs/calipers/pads, Mikes right in also recommending better brake fluid e.g. DOT 3 or 4. I would also replace the brake lines with proper braided lines which dont expand so much. Oh, and you can nalso make the car lighter, thatll definitely help
If you decide youre ok with grinding your disc + replacing them regularly, you might as well go for racing pads using Kevlar/metallic compounds. I can give you some links + comparisons if you decide to go that way.I used to drive much heavier cars where going faster had nothing to do with more power but better stopping!!
Philip has given some sound advice there, you want to get some drilled and grooved discs which combine good dispersion of heat and de-glazing of the pads, so more friction. As far as pads go you need something with a high operating temperature, youll have to think about it though as on road use they might not be warmed up (and not work) at all although theyll work well on track. Most manufacturers have their pads labelled as fast road and track so decided whats the best for you and go get em! I wouldnt get kevlar/metallic pads..stripping weight a good idea though.
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Frosty,
Ferrari, Porsche and BMW and the rest wouldnt use drilled discs for show!
My Willy seems very happy with Ferodo DS2000 pads. Whether my discs are going to stand up to them remains to be seen.
The main thing that I find with the Ferodos is that they do not fade and they last. The wheels also stay clean. The friction level cold is nowhere near the stock pads though.
Ed
If you want to avoid £1k+ spend on bigger discs/calipers, you always have the option of harder pads and changing discs every so often (about £100 for a front pair). Depends how much track use youre planning. If its the odd day out, swapping pads before you go on track may also be a viable option, and switch back to your normal pads afterwards.
Somebody had a question about Pagids recently. That’s the info I had at the time. Hope it helps
"Most standard pads have friction coefficients of 0.4 or so but are designed to be effective from low temperatures for normal driving. Several pad manufacturers including Mintex, Ferodo, pagid etc. etc produce pads with higher friction coefficients, and most pagids tend to provide approx. 0.5 and good temperature fade. There are also specialist pads (typically metallic compunds and/or kevlar) that produce massive (0.65 and above) friction coefficients, but they are useless below 200/250 degrees and will rapidly degrade your discs (not mentioning countless pedestrians casualties who will not wait for your pads to heat up nicely...). My advice, would be to go for 0.50-0.55 friction pads designed to operate from low temperatures (150+ deg) up to 550 deg for fast road use. If you intend to use the car on circuit, just temporarily swap out the pads to race pads.
The pagids are probably better than Mintex 1144s (0.44 ). I would chose pagid RS4.2 or RS 4.4 (so called blue or red). Another good pad is Ferodo DS2500. In any case, be careful how you run in your new pads (avoid immediate prolonged hard braking when theyre new or youll glaze the surface of the pads and make them useless)"
Thanks for all the replies....very helpful!
To answer the questions, I intend to do a number of track days this year (one down @ Bedford, one booked for 27th June, then a handful of others)...around 10 or so (max).
The car is very good as std and Ive since fitted Eibach springs which really help on the road and work well on the track. However, I found on my last outing at Bedford that the brakes were starting to go "off" towards the end of the day. I dont want to spend a forture on new discs/calipers (that money can go to my V6 fund!) but just on a better set of pads more suited to infrequent track day use, whilst still being acceptable on the road.
Id have to disagree with the grooved/drilled theory....everything Ive read/heard about them slates them. Fact - Porsche cast the holes in their discs, they dont drill them. Ive seen plenty of drilled discs crack around the drilled hole through overheating. They might think theyre copying Porsche but theres a -huge- different between theirs and taking a BlacknDecker to your std discs! If you really want Porsche stopping power (bit pointless on a 172!) then visit http://www.movit.dehttp://www.movit.de
The drillved holes help with gas dispersal. When pads get hot, you either get physical glaze, pad float or you get the fuid to boil in localsed palces leading to gas in the lines and thus fade.
The holes prevent pad float from gas released from a hot pad, they simply pass through the holes.
In my opinion, a simple pad swap is all you need, true, it will eat away at discs a teeny weeny bit faster, but i have been running 1144 pads and plain maxtorque discs upfront on my race spec fezzy on amy a track day, no fade nothing. its still on its original set and the set only cost me about 60 quid for the lot.
Id assume that you car has at least dot4 in it already, but i find that castrols super dot 4 synthetic brake fluid is great, high boiling points and you dont need ot change it very often, unlike dot 5 which is has a violent hydroscopicity.
As for deceleratinga car faster, larger pad area is not the only way, a longer torque arm and simple pad CoFs work wonders. If your braking from 120mph, the std pads will usually get pad float before any glaze or fliud boiling. So, if you run harder pads, you wont get this form of fade as early, leading to faster retardation rates.
Pads really is all msot people need. Big honking 6 pots and 19" wheels to accomodate 345mm discs is overkill.
Its all about converting kinetic energy into heat, the better and longer you can do it, the better you will stop, simple.
Drilled discs allow air movement and an increased surface area which improves cooling. So basically you can use the brakes for longer as they wont over heat with continued use, and so are good for track use.
Maybe your derogotory attitude is caused by experience? Where you have bought cheap discs using sub-standard materials where drilled discs can cause them to crack and break. The thing to ask is if the holes were made when the disc was originally cast. If they are machine drilled theyre likely to crack at some point. You can get spotted discs which are like half holed which is a compromise.
I can assure you Frosty that i have quite a bit of experience in this area, im not just reeling out sh*t here.
-Rob
When I got new discs for my Clio (http://www.mcmillan-uk.com/clio/brakes.jpg everyone">www.mcmillan-uk.com/clio/brakes.jpg everyone I spoke to said drilled discs were not as good as grooved - drilled discs also have a tendancy to crack.
I spoke to a specialist at Tar Ox who told me that drilled discs were purely for show and grooved discs were by far the best.
mm thers alot of bull going on in this thread.
just get some pagid pads they are the best bar none and for the cost braided hoses aswell.
they will last you way past 2 track days as the pads are harder than standard ones i have seen them last over 20,000 miles.
I had the blues (rs2s)on my lotus and they were the best thing i have ever tried until i put on rs14 wow is all i can say.
makes ebc and mintex look sh1t imo.
the drilled disks on the lotus crack also
AS for relying on my brakes yes i do as i tend to out brake every one on the track days i go on.
For the 172 i have not done a track day yet, bedford will be the first and the standard brakes seem quite good so i am holding off brake upgrades until after then. ( and then i will just go for blues i think + hoses)
