Brake cooling

[banhama]

I'm looking forward to pushing the rear brakes harder on my race car by controlling the weight transfer better under braking The suspension system I'm using will stiffen up the front dampers and soften the rear to keep the car flatter so rear traction should be improved. I'll be testing WInmax W4 which are a little more aggressive than Ferodo DS2500, RC5, PBS etc. I have lap times to beat though so its a bit different to most track day car setups.

For future reference I will be looking to renew suspension before the start of 2019 season so will be very interested in what your test results.
If I want to stay in production class I cannot have external reservoirs, so probably limited to 1-way adjustment.

What tracks are you chasing lap times on?

PS. rear pads ordered.

 

[Simon@ASTUK]

Brembos look good. I think I will follow your lead on the rear pads, just to give bit of balance to the improvement on the front.

Had a bit of a test on the road today and as with yours the pedal is a bit longer. I prefer this as it gives you a bit more modulation, rather than on on-off switch. I will have a quick re-bleed though just to check it's not air!!

Out of interest what coilovers do you have there? That will be the next upgrade.

The 4100 are currently on sale. ?

https://www.cliosport.net/threads/ast-4100-kits-172-182-oct-promo-25-off.822036/

 

[Kev@KAM]

For future reference I will be looking to renew suspension before the start of 2019 season so will be very interested in what your test results.
If I want to stay in production class I cannot have external reservoirs, so probably limited to 1-way adjustment.

What tracks are you chasing lap times on?

PS. rear pads ordered.

Time Attack 2019 tracks and dates have not been announced yet so I dont know just yet. Once they have I can go through the previous lap records and see whats feasible. Either way theres been some great Peugeot 205's built for the series by Spoox and I'm hoping my designs for my car will be a big step up technically to improve traction and corner balance, allowing me as a driver to be able to push the car near its limits with ease. On the flip side a new car with untested setup could take some time to dial in to a competitive vehicle.
As for suspension. Mine is Tractive electronic 1-ways. No cannister and some clever electronics to keep the chassis flat but a simplicity to the setup so it can be easily set up in the pits for a small team, and adjusted on the fly from the driver seat to further improve handling.

 

[banhama]

Time Attack 2019 tracks and dates have not been announced yet so I dont know just yet. Once they have I can go through the previous lap records and see whats feasible.

Good luck in Time Attack, I try to follow it as best I can, but don't think I'd ever enter as it's far too technical for me, and as you suggest in your post the cars are really well developed and technically advanced. I do love chasing and improving lap-times though, just not quite as much as the fun of wheel to wheel racing in fairly basic machinery.
I'd be very interested to see how useful you find the in-car adjustment, I guess it's a whole leap forward from something like the Tein EDFC I once had in the impreza, which was just a remote control for the damping adjustment?
I've seen F1 drivers twiddling with their knobs between corners, but my slow brain hardly has a chance to glance at the instruments mid-race!

 

[VenomUK]

I went with the brembo conversion on the mk2. They are good round track and never have any brake fade...it’s the tyres giving up now!
I have found that having a decent race pad in the rear calipers does make a difference to running standard pads.
I went from CL rc5 rear pads to standard as everyone says the rear pads do nothing and it felt like the Clio wasn’t scrubbing speed off as well as the Cl rc5’s... new ones are back in the calipers.
My front set up
View attachment 1391337
I’ve got a ducting kit off eBay. They just let fresh air into the wheel well. BYC make a kit that fits directly onto the front caliper..looks a real decent bit of kit

My brake peddle seems a bit longer now. The braking is fine but I’m going to try the master cylinder off of the mk3 Clio and see if that helps.

Nice brake kit you have there ?

I was looking at the BYC cooling but my concern is where to run the ducting. I can't see anything but issues with that set up with the tyres fouling the ducting pipe when turning or on lock...

 

[Kev@KAM]

For future reference I will be looking to renew suspension before the start of 2019 season so will be very interested in what your test results.
If I want to stay in production class I cannot have external reservoirs, so probably limited to 1-way adjustment.

What tracks are you chasing lap times on?

PS. rear pads ordered.

This ones out the archives

I never did get time to build that racecar. However I put the Tractive suspension on a Clio Trophy and used Winmax W6 front then Winmax W4 on the back of that with no issues at all. I dont think many were able to brake later. From what I can tell a lot of racecars are having bias valves fitted to push braking bias rearwards to achieve the same goal on oem pads but I'm using the original braking circuit.

 

[Kev@KAM]

I was looking at the BYC cooling but my concern is where to run the ducting. I can't see anything but issues with that set up with the tyres fouling the ducting pipe when turning or on lock...

I think with the larger Brembo's you will be ok for cooling with just having the fog lights and inner arch plastics removed.

 

[VenomUK]

I think with the larger Brembo's you will be ok for cooling with just having the fog lights and inner arch plastics removed.

I did think this as I found the brembos very good at dissipating heat from them. I think I will just opt for the PMS/eBay setup

 

[Kev@KAM]

Its a slightly larger pad surface area and the alloy calipers dissipate heat significantly better than the OEM calipers.

 

[EVO 4LEX]

Only other thing I use which isn’t mentioned is some cup racer style air deflectors mounted to the inner arch to divert the air towards the disc.

 

[banhama]

I think with the larger Brembo's you will be ok for cooling with just having the fog lights and inner arch plastics removed.

Wiith larger front brakes (Ceika 6 pot in my case) just removing the fog lights and arch linings has meant that I have had no brake cooling issues, without any ducting.
This includes Lydden Hill in the summer, which has no straights to cool the brakes, just accelerate and brake as hard as possible for 20 minutes straight, so quite a good test.
So I would agree with Kev@KAM just open up the airflow through the fog holes.
Maybe not the most aerodynamic solution, but it's a Clio, not slippery sports car!

 

[JamesBryan]

Just having the caliper made out of aluminium is a lot better than cast steel.

Fit some titanium shims as well to keep the heat off the piston seals and transferring heat into the fluid.

 

[VenomUK]

Just having the caliper made out of aluminium is a lot better than cast steel.

Fit some titanium shims as well to keep the heat off the piston seals and transferring heat into the fluid.

Where can you get these from?

 

[JamesBryan]

Where can you get these from?

They are a thing for Mk3 calipers, I'm sure there are some for the Mk2 somewhere.

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[MLB]

Do those really make a difference?

 

[JamesBryan]

Do those really make a difference?

In my experience yes.

Definitely keeps the pedal feeling firmer, which means less heat is being transferred into the fluid.

And it saves your piston seals from melting.

 

[scullyg40]

Best to check the rears are working as they should be as a lot of the rear calipers on these cars are starting to get tired if they've not been refurb'd/swapped by now. Hear people saying they don't do anything and they hardly get hot, good chance they're not working at their best/getting as much fluid to them as the compensator valve has seized/seen better days

I'm one of those guys that can't get my rear brakes warm. I'm also still on the original brake pads since I've got the car.
At least one of my calipers has been replaced, so I guess they are both working.
But my compensate valve could be past it's best. Is there any way to check this? Or just replace to be sure?

 

[MLB]

In my experience yes.

Definitely keeps the pedal feeling firmer, which means less heat is being transferred into the fluid.

And it saves your piston seals from melting.

Very interesting, wouldn’t have thought it would be that noticeable.

 

[JamesBryan]

Very interesting, wouldn’t have thought it would be that noticeable.

It delays the heat long enough for it to be cooled.

I can't remember the figures, but i think they can stop upto 60°c. So if you're borderline boiling your fluid 60°c would make the difference.