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Brake cooling
- Thread starter banhama
- Start date
charltjr
ClioSport Club Member
I just took the fog lights out and cut holes in the wheel arch liners, bit of generic ducting, job done.
Thanks for the replies, I found these interesting duct inlets on e-bay and will buy these, then use flexible ducting and a deflector plate to try and aim the air at the inner side of the caliper.
We used Ferrodo race pads on a trackday last weekend, which gave great braking, but overheated significantly and have warped the OEM discs.
I should know from my race experience with the Impreza that aggressive pads with standard discs is not a long-term solution!
I have ordered a Ceika big-brake kit for the fronts and will report back once fitted.
We used Ferrodo race pads on a trackday last weekend, which gave great braking, but overheated significantly and have warped the OEM discs.
I should know from my race experience with the Impreza that aggressive pads with standard discs is not a long-term solution!
I have ordered a Ceika big-brake kit for the fronts and will report back once fitted.
imprezaworks
ClioSport Club Member
Mk5 Golf GTI :)
Quite a few run harder pads with the standard brembo discs without any issues.
I think our main problem is the tracks we frequent, Lydden Hill and Brands Indy. Lydden Hill in particular has only tiny straights so you are constantly on the brakes with hardly any chance for cooling.
It could be the discs on our car were cheaper replacements than the original Brembos though, and maybe that's why they warped so readily.
I'm a bit odd in that I never liked the Brembo brakes on the Impreza, always wilted on a hot day. I replaced them with 6-pot APs, which were fantastic....best go-faster modification I ever made!
I couldn't find any AP kits for the Clio on the net? Otherwise I think I would have shelled out the extra for APs
imprezaworks
ClioSport Club Member
Mk5 Golf GTI :)
No expert but I would try
Brembo discs, 45 ish
New fluid.
Pads like ds.11
All from @George@RTR_Parts
Brembo discs, 45 ish
New fluid.
Pads like ds.11
All from @George@RTR_Parts
George@RTR_Parts
ClioSport Trader
cheers @imprezaworks . I can help with your brakes and other parts @banhama . Send me a PM if want any help/info. Plenty cars running the Brembo discs without issue
ref the cooling, it depends how neat you want it, some do the ducts, ducting and deflector plates. others just remove the fogs and arch liners all together. But decent brake cooling makes a big difference , and worth while doing on a track/race car for sure
ref the cooling, it depends how neat you want it, some do the ducts, ducting and deflector plates. others just remove the fogs and arch liners all together. But decent brake cooling makes a big difference , and worth while doing on a track/race car for sure
MK7 Golf R, Clio 182
Everyone I know that races (myself included) uses standard callipers and hc disks. Talk to RTR about ds11.1 pads and better fluid. ?
Thanks for the replies, very helpful. Unfortunately you can see from my second post that I had already jumped the gun and ordered a full front brake kit, should have waited a bit longer!
I am surprised to hear that race converted cars generally stick to the single pot calipers, but I suppose it is a much lighter car than what I'm used to.
I will definitely be in touch with RTR for fluid and other parts for the car.
I am surprised to hear that race converted cars generally stick to the single pot calipers, but I suppose it is a much lighter car than what I'm used to.
I will definitely be in touch with RTR for fluid and other parts for the car.
I’ve removed arch liners and Fogs, it gives great airflow in my opinion
Kev@KAM
ClioSport Trader
Badass Toyota
Most Clio race series are regulated on the brakes so limited choice to keep budgets down and things competitive.
Generally the standard calipers with some good race pads will cope with a fair bit of heat. To run cooler without ducting, you need bigger calipers and pads and/or bigger discs.
Disc size is rather limited by wheel choice. But a Brembo 4-Pot conversion reduces heat a fair bit and that lowers pad wear.
Generally the standard calipers with some good race pads will cope with a fair bit of heat. To run cooler without ducting, you need bigger calipers and pads and/or bigger discs.
Disc size is rather limited by wheel choice. But a Brembo 4-Pot conversion reduces heat a fair bit and that lowers pad wear.
BIFCAIDS
ClioSport Club Member
340i M-Sport & 182
My view is that if you're tracking the car and stripping weight there is no need to go sticking bigger calipers on. The caliper they come with is perfect for the standard weight car with standard pads and discs. Never mind a car 50-200kg lighter than it started.
BBK's are overkill and involve unnecessary cost (other than dick swinging), the best combo is standard disc (not grooved or drilled), good pads on the front and standard pads in the rear.
I've had zero issues running:
Front
CL5+ pads / Brembo HC discs
Rear
Brembo HC pads / Brembo HC discs
Fluid
Dot 5 Motul fluid
Lines
Goodridge braided lines
In terms of cooling, well are the discs on Clio's not front cooling discs anyway (please correct me if I'm wrong, I was told this when deciding what to do for cooling)?
BBK's are overkill and involve unnecessary cost (other than dick swinging), the best combo is standard disc (not grooved or drilled), good pads on the front and standard pads in the rear.
I've had zero issues running:
Front
CL5+ pads / Brembo HC discs
Rear
Brembo HC pads / Brembo HC discs
Fluid
Dot 5 Motul fluid
Lines
Goodridge braided lines
In terms of cooling, well are the discs on Clio's not front cooling discs anyway (please correct me if I'm wrong, I was told this when deciding what to do for cooling)?
Thanks for all the useful replies, much appreciated.
The series we would be racing in is a mixed category tin-top series, where brake modifications are free, even in 'production' class. So shouldn't have an issue there.
I suppose there are two aspects to consider with any modification which is supposed to be an upgrade.
Firstly are you looking to overcome a defect, such as overheating brakes, overheating engine etc. under race conditions.
Secondly are you looking to increase the performance of something that doesn't have any particular issues, such as 175bhp is great, 200 is better!
In this case it looks like I'm trying to achieve both, overcome a disc warping issue possibly due to sub standard discs, and increase the overall braking performance.
Although the OEM system is obviously very good there is always room for improvement.
Again harking back to the Impreza, the OEM Brembo kit on the Newage STis is considered a great upgrade for models that didn't have it, but the AP 6-pot race kit is another league altogether, as proven by the stopwatch.
It would be really interesting to hear from anyone who has fitted a 4-pot brake kit, particularly if they found no improvement ( in lap times ) over the OEM set up. That would really point to a waste of money!
The series we would be racing in is a mixed category tin-top series, where brake modifications are free, even in 'production' class. So shouldn't have an issue there.
I suppose there are two aspects to consider with any modification which is supposed to be an upgrade.
Firstly are you looking to overcome a defect, such as overheating brakes, overheating engine etc. under race conditions.
Secondly are you looking to increase the performance of something that doesn't have any particular issues, such as 175bhp is great, 200 is better!
In this case it looks like I'm trying to achieve both, overcome a disc warping issue possibly due to sub standard discs, and increase the overall braking performance.
Although the OEM system is obviously very good there is always room for improvement.
Again harking back to the Impreza, the OEM Brembo kit on the Newage STis is considered a great upgrade for models that didn't have it, but the AP 6-pot race kit is another league altogether, as proven by the stopwatch.
It would be really interesting to hear from anyone who has fitted a 4-pot brake kit, particularly if they found no improvement ( in lap times ) over the OEM set up. That would really point to a waste of money!
BIFCAIDS
ClioSport Club Member
340i M-Sport & 182
A Civic we run in Roadsports has standard calipers with standard dics and PBS pads, no issues with perfomance with either driver and their driving styles are polar opposites.
You’ll be surprised to find out we have had zero issues during testing (many track days running the car for as long as possible) and zero issues during our 45min races. The same principle stands, of course a set of bigger calipers, discs and pads are going to do a better job thats common sense.
If you want a bigger brake set up, stop beating around the bush, buy the beggers fit them and post some pictures lol.
You’ll be surprised to find out we have had zero issues during testing (many track days running the car for as long as possible) and zero issues during our 45min races. The same principle stands, of course a set of bigger calipers, discs and pads are going to do a better job thats common sense.
If you want a bigger brake set up, stop beating around the bush, buy the beggers fit them and post some pictures lol.
I did !!!
My second post in this thread......
I think I am guilty of my usual fault........writing posts that are too long so the main content gets lost! ?
Ceika is an odd choice maybe, but the options available to specify your own set-up were very comprehensive so I thought I'd give them a go.
Not turned up yet but will definitely let you know how they perform.
PS. Roadsports looks very interesting for us, as the idea behind getting the Clio rather than another high power car is that my son could also race it.
I'm sure you know that you now need a class A licence for anything over 340bhp/tonne, so he couldn't start racing in the Impreza.
We were looking at double headers and having one race each, but of course you'd get nowhere in a championship.
We will look into Roadsports for next year.
Many thanks
Last edited:
Kev@KAM
ClioSport Trader
Badass Toyota
Over thirty or so laps you will see a benefit of running cooler, but I dont think you are going to find that sort of data.
Realistically on a light car the benefits are more going to be the better pad surface area and the money saved in reduced pad wear due to lower temperatures.
That's a very good point, a very fast Clio we raced the Impreza against has huge front calipers, when I enquired why it was not so much for braking performance as for pad wear. Previously used a £350 set of pads in a race weekend, where the bigger ones pretty much lasted the whole season.
I ran that. Remove the fogs and surrounds plus the arch liners. You won’t have any brake issues as long as you put decent fluid in to match.
I honestly don't know how much testing they do, but would be really surprised if they tested all the combinations on each model of car.
One of the reasons I went for them is you pretty much pick your own spec......you choose disc size, type, caliper type and number of pistons, coatings etc.....could probably end up with hundreds of combinations just for one car.
I wanted to replicate as far as possible the 6-pot AP set up I had on my Impreza, as I found the brake feel so much better with the increasing piston size as shown in the photo below.
They were very helpful during the selection process, and have asked for feedback and photos once the brakes are fitted, but only time will tell if they actually perform as I hope they will
Finally had a chance to fit the brake kit. Trying to push things on a bit as I've entered an Allcomers race at Lydden Hill on 3rd November and still got loads to do!
I am very impressed with the quality of the product. It was a really straightforward fitment, and it actually took me less time to change the brakes than it did to flush through and bleed the system with fresh Castrol React.
Everything you need is included in the kit, right down to a little pot of thread-lock, and various shims to centralise the caliper if necessary.
Some pics:
OEM Kit removed and in good condition with plenty of wear left on £200 worth of Ferrodo pads!
Will be for sale if anyone's interested:
Caliper mounting brackets fitted
New 2-piece disc fitted, note the slots go 'against' the rotation, as per Brembo spec. I think the idea is that it improves the cleaning of the pad surface.
Calipers fitted, and new stainless braided hoses were a perfect fit to the OEM hard pipe, but also came with various adaptors if needed.
Another side benefit is the weight saving. I wish I'd weighed the complete new kit before fitting, but I put all the OEM stuff back in the same box and it was a damn sight harder to pick up!
Anyway the proof of the braking is in the driving, so looking forward to bedding in and road test tomorrow.
We will only really know how good they are after the race, which I am praying will be dry.... mainly because I hate the wet.....but also the brakes won't get a proper test in the wet.
I am very impressed with the quality of the product. It was a really straightforward fitment, and it actually took me less time to change the brakes than it did to flush through and bleed the system with fresh Castrol React.
Everything you need is included in the kit, right down to a little pot of thread-lock, and various shims to centralise the caliper if necessary.
Some pics:
OEM Kit removed and in good condition with plenty of wear left on £200 worth of Ferrodo pads!
Will be for sale if anyone's interested:
Caliper mounting brackets fitted
New 2-piece disc fitted, note the slots go 'against' the rotation, as per Brembo spec. I think the idea is that it improves the cleaning of the pad surface.
Calipers fitted, and new stainless braided hoses were a perfect fit to the OEM hard pipe, but also came with various adaptors if needed.
Another side benefit is the weight saving. I wish I'd weighed the complete new kit before fitting, but I put all the OEM stuff back in the same box and it was a damn sight harder to pick up!
Anyway the proof of the braking is in the driving, so looking forward to bedding in and road test tomorrow.
We will only really know how good they are after the race, which I am praying will be dry.... mainly because I hate the wet.....but also the brakes won't get a proper test in the wet.
Damn they are nice! But no picture under the wheel? 
Audi rs3/Clio 172cup
Very nice. Do you have a decent choice of pads for the calliper?
Damn they are nice! But no picture under the wheel?
My apologies, I haven't put the wheels back on yet, just offered up to check there's about 3mm clearance.
The wheels are a bit shoddy so won't enhance the look?
I'll post a pic today
Ceika themselves offer a range from street, sport, race, and pro race.
I must admit I haven't investigated if any other pad manufacturer's make pads to fit the calipers.
Thought I'd see how the Ceika race pads performed first.
green
ClioSport Club Member
Hi comp phase 1
I went with the brembo conversion on the mk2. They are good round track and never have any brake fade...it’s the tyres giving up now!
I have found that having a decent race pad in the rear calipers does make a difference to running standard pads.
I went from CL rc5 rear pads to standard as everyone says the rear pads do nothing and it felt like the Clio wasn’t scrubbing speed off as well as the Cl rc5’s... new ones are back in the calipers.
My front set up
I’ve got a ducting kit off eBay. They just let fresh air into the wheel well. BYC make a kit that fits directly onto the front caliper..looks a real decent bit of kit
My brake peddle seems a bit longer now. The braking is fine but I’m going to try the master cylinder off of the mk3 Clio and see if that helps.
Nice brake kit you have there ?
I have found that having a decent race pad in the rear calipers does make a difference to running standard pads.
I went from CL rc5 rear pads to standard as everyone says the rear pads do nothing and it felt like the Clio wasn’t scrubbing speed off as well as the Cl rc5’s... new ones are back in the calipers.
My front set up
I’ve got a ducting kit off eBay. They just let fresh air into the wheel well. BYC make a kit that fits directly onto the front caliper..looks a real decent bit of kit
My brake peddle seems a bit longer now. The braking is fine but I’m going to try the master cylinder off of the mk3 Clio and see if that helps.
Nice brake kit you have there ?
Brembos look good. I think I will follow your lead on the rear pads, just to give bit of balance to the improvement on the front.
Had a bit of a test on the road today and as with yours the pedal is a bit longer. I prefer this as it gives you a bit more modulation, rather than on on-off switch. I will have a quick re-bleed though just to check it's not air!!
Out of interest what coilovers do you have there? That will be the next upgrade.
Kev@KAM
ClioSport Trader
Badass Toyota
Its a comment banded around by a lot of people doing trackdays but although smaller advantage than sorting fronts, its worth it when you actually need that advantage. You wont find many top end race drivers running OEM at the back.
@Kev@KAM
Can you supply the CLRC5 for the rears. If so I would like to fit them and bed in before our race on Nov 3rd.
Many thanks, Andy
Kev@KAM
ClioSport Trader
Badass Toyota
Never a problem
https://www.kamracing.co.uk/car-tun...s-brake-pads-renault-clio-mk2-rs-172-182.html
As they are sintered metal you dont have to bed them in. Just go out and drive hard.
Kev@KAM
ClioSport Trader
Badass Toyota
Ahh just checked stock; RC6 is here, backordered with RC5+ . An alterative may be the rear PBS Pro-Race. Great pads and half the price
https://www.kamracing.co.uk/car-tun...rorace-brake-pads-renaultsport-rs172-182.html
https://www.kamracing.co.uk/car-tun...rorace-brake-pads-renaultsport-rs172-182.html
Many thanks, will ring tomorrow to order
George@RTR_Parts
ClioSport Trader
Depends how neat you want it looking. If just wanting to run some ducting off the back of the fog light surround, and holesaw through the front arch liner, I can supply the ducting and clips.
When the calipers are working as they should be, the split is roughly 66/33 front/rear. So if running a BBK or track/race front pads, a mild upgrade rear pad will help scrub speed off (like you've found) and keep the bias more in check. "text book" on a FWD hot hatch like a 172/182 would be front DS1.11 and rear DS2500 for example. I supply a lot of this pad combo to track and race cars.
You can "get away" with running oe rear pads on a track car. But for the cost of a rear upgrade pad that will wear better due to taking the heat better, will work out similar over their lifes if have to change the rear oe pads a few times
Best to check the rears are working as they should be as a lot of the rear calipers on these cars are starting to get tired if they've not been refurb'd/swapped by now. Hear people saying they don't do anything and they hardly get hot, good chance they're not working at their best/getting as much fluid to them as the compensator valve has seized/seen better days
Kev@KAM
ClioSport Trader
Badass Toyota
I'm looking forward to pushing the rear brakes harder on my race car by controlling the weight transfer better under braking The suspension system I'm using will stiffen up the front dampers and soften the rear to keep the car flatter so rear traction should be improved. I'll be testing WInmax W4 which are a little more aggressive than Ferodo DS2500, RC5, PBS etc. I have lap times to beat though so its a bit different to most track day car setups.
The suspension system I'm using will stiffen up the front dampers and soften the rear to keep the car flatter so rear traction should be improved. I'll be testing WInmax W4 which are a little more aggressive than Ferodo DS2500, RC5, PBS etc. I have lap times to beat though so its a bit different to most track day car setups.
