Broken aussie ph1 172 - advice

[Dave 200]

Have been battling a running problem for the last 6 months or so. It is so bad now that the car is no longer driveable. When attempting to accelerate, there is no power. The engine feels like it wants to rev and makes a loud throbbing sound not too dissimilar to a subaru boxer engine.

It starts and idles absolutely fine. Sometimes I am able to drive it around the block and it feels 100% fine. Then out of nowhere, the problem reappears, revs either drop to around idle or it stalls. I have noticed that it stalls easily when reversing.

I have spent a fortune on it over the last few months trying to fix the problem. There are no engine warning lights, no relevant errors in the computer (some rubbish about ABS and thats about it). What has been replaced with brand new:

OEM Fuel pump
fuel injectors (genuine magneti IWP042)
NGK coil pack
MLR HT leads (plugs are a year old, NGK PFRE6-10)
Bosch MAP sensor
Lucas CAS sensor (blue one with loom)
Intake temp sensor
Magneti marelli Throttle position sensor
upstream O2 sensor (Bosch)
Rebuilt TB (ICV is a year old, removed and cleaned recently but wasn't dirty much)
Breather plate removed and degreased
Gaskets replaced (cam dephaser gasket, intake manifold gaskets, TB gasket)

I have been advised that possibly the fuel tank has corroded inside and perhaps the fuel pickup is blocked. I really don't want to remove the fuel pump again, messy job. Is this possible? Are the tanks made of material that can corrode?

I have a new fuel filter here, haven't fitted yet.

I am all ears, at my wits end, need this as a second car to drive couple of days a week and just want it to work.

 

[Dave 200]

https://cliosport.net/data/video/1463/1463088-6455b46b8fab2264f32786b204af0190.mp4

 

[Dave 200]

^ Video of the problem. My foot was flat to the floor the whole time.

 

[deanoE30M3]

Have you checked the timing, may of slipped?!

when was the cambelt last done..

 

[Dave 200]

Cambelt is due. Was 4 years ago although has only done 20000km in 4 years

i guess thats a possibility but if timing had slipped wouldnt it be bad all the time?

 

[R3k1355]

I have been advised that possibly the fuel tank has corroded inside and perhaps the fuel pickup is blocked. I really don't want to remove the fuel pump again, messy job. Is this possible? Are the tanks made of material that can corrode?

Do you have Ethanol in your fuel?

It used to be pretty rare for them to corrode, but with newer Ethanol blends you can get issues depending on the concentrations.

 

[Dave 200]

Do you have Ethanol in your fuel?

It used to be pretty rare for them to corrode, but with newer Ethanol blends you can get issues depending on the concentrations.

no ethanol, well i never put e10 in. Only 98 and mainly BP

 

[R3k1355]

i guess thats a possibility but if timing had slipped wouldnt it be bad all the time?

What if the dephaser was properly bad? Would deffo get some genuine tools and check the timing.

 

[Dave 200]

What if the dephaser was properly bad? Would deffo get some genuine tools and check the timing.

will rstuner be able to pick up timing issues?

 

[R3k1355]

I'm talking cambelt timing, so you'd need to get the covers off and stuff, then insert the locking tools.

If you can fit the tools in, then the timing is correct. If not then clearly you've found at least one problem.

 

[Dave 200]

Hey mate thanks for the heads up on that. I’ll see if my mechanic can bring the timing tools round to check it

 

[JamesBryan]

Fuel tank is plastic, so I doubt it'll be that.

 

[Robbie Corbett]

What does coolant and air temp read as in RS Tuner?

To me it sounds like its going very lean, I had a very similar experience with one of my bikes and it turned out to be a collapsed fuel filter, so was fine just pottering and engine died as you came on power, over time it got worse too.

You could potentially diagnose this with a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail. While I think about it, PH1's had a return line to the tank and hence a fuel pressure regulator which could also cause this. I would be checking all vac lines and doing a smoke/leak test. My suspicion would be pressure regulator on the fuel rail.

Rail pressure should be 3 bar ish, and should be (probably - someone else will know) vented to atmosphere so pressure should stay pretty fixed at 3bar regardless of revs.

 

[Robbie Corbett]

I've also heard about people suffering from very blocked catalysts but I think the PH1 had two next to each other? So its unlikely both could collapse enough to do that.

 

[alx8oy]

Have been battling a running problem for the last 6 months or so. It is so bad now that the car is no longer driveable. When attempting to accelerate, there is no power. The engine feels like it wants to rev and makes a loud throbbing sound not too dissimilar to a subaru boxer engine.

It starts and idles absolutely fine. Sometimes I am able to drive it around the block and it feels 100% fine. Then out of nowhere, the problem reappears, revs either drop to around idle or it stalls. I have noticed that it stalls easily when reversing.

I have spent a fortune on it over the last few months trying to fix the problem. There are no engine warning lights, no relevant errors in the computer (some rubbish about ABS and thats about it). What has been replaced with brand new:

OEM Fuel pump
fuel injectors (genuine magneti IWP042)
NGK coil pack
MLR HT leads (plugs are a year old, NGK PFRE6-10)
Bosch MAP sensor
Lucas CAS sensor (blue one with loom)
Intake temp sensor
Magneti marelli Throttle position sensor
upstream O2 sensor (Bosch)
Rebuilt TB (ICV is a year old, removed and cleaned recently but wasn't dirty much)
Breather plate removed and degreased
Gaskets replaced (cam dephaser gasket, intake manifold gaskets, TB gasket)

I have been advised that possibly the fuel tank has corroded inside and perhaps the fuel pickup is blocked. I really don't want to remove the fuel pump again, messy job. Is this possible? Are the tanks made of material that can corrode?

I have a new fuel filter here, haven't fitted yet.

I am all ears, at my wits end, need this as a second car to drive couple of days a week and just want it to work.

Hi, i had a 2001 clio rs172 that had trouble running. I initially renewed the injectors and fuel pump. Make sure the pipe from the tank pump to the rail is clear. Where my car had sat the metal that was part of the pump in the tank had rusted. After renewing the pump it then picked up the old rust in the filter of the new one giving starting and power problems. You can also remove the fuel rail with injectors connected and spin it over. You can see the injector spray patterns and even if they fire. Its a primitive system thats why you get no faults. Its not timing or electrical its a mechanical fault-mechanics are too quick to use a laptop.
Any other info give me a shout

 

[Dave 200]

Some great info there. I changed the fuel pump recently and changed the regulator to a god bosch one inside the pump housing. I will change the fuel filter and then go from there, checking the return line.

the cat is aftermarket, just a single one not dual like the factory item. The whole exhaust is very rough, the entire thing is welded from downpipe/collector flange all the way to muffler so difficult to check for blockages but the cat doesn’t rattle when i give it a tap with a mallet

 

[Dave 200]

Yes i have an rstuner on the way, should be here early next week and then i will be able to check obvious things. None of my obd readers work on the phase 1!

 

[Robbie Corbett]

No regulator on the fuel rail on a ph1?

 

[Dave 200]

No regulator on the fuel rail on a ph1?

no it’s in the tank. nothing on the fuel rail

 

[alx8oy]

Some great info there. I changed the fuel pump recently and changed the regulator to a god bosch one inside the pump housing. I will change the fuel filter and then go from there, checking the return line.

the cat is aftermarket, just a single one not dual like the factory item. The whole exhaust is very rough, the entire thing is welded from downpipe/collector flange all the way to muffler so difficult to check for blockages but the cat doesn’t rattle when i give it a tap with a mallet

Even if the cat was blocked it would not stop it starting. There would be enough air gap between the engine and cat to start before it pressurised enough to stall an engine. If you can unbolt it from the manifold and start it up. I doubt its a cat to be honest. The fuel pump on the clio only pumps when the engine spins over. It does not come on when the ignition is on. A simple test what i done aswell was disconnect the fuel rail supply elbow and put it into a bucket. Spin the engine over and see howmuch and what state the fuel is. Odds on it will be a fuel problem. The injectors do have very fine gauze filters in if you find one is not firing properly aswell dude

 

[Dave 200]

Yeah I’ll do that too. Easy one to check. The injectors are brand new. I think the fuel is fine as the problem is Not happening all the time. Sometimes its ok and will rev cleanly to redline and drives great and then out of nowhere it dies in the arse and wont behave again unless its switched off overnight. I dropped octane booster in as the fuel is around 6 months old.

it does feel like a fuel blockage.

 

[alx8oy]

Yeah I’ll do that too. Easy one to check. The injectors are brand new. I think the fuel is fine as the problem is Not happening all the time. Sometimes its ok and will rev cleanly to redline and drives great and then out of nowhere it dies in the arse and wont behave again unless its switched off overnight. I dropped octane booster in as the fuel is around 6 months old.

it does feel like a fuel blockage.

Another fault that are common on them is the crankshaft speed sensor-sits at the rear of the block just inside top of the gearbox housing. This can also play up giving starting or running rough. I may not always show an error as it may give the wrong speed reading to the ecu but still be within tolerance with the camshafts if that makes sense. A decent diagnostic computer should be able to see this

 

[Martin_172]

i would get an autospark on the case to test wiring to the injectors, sensors and ecu

 

[Dave 200]

Here’s the old filter.



New filter in and problem is still there.


when cold, its fine. Drives like normal. As soon as its warmed up, problem return