Buying a 172 that needs belts/pulley V's Buying one already done?

[Phil_H]

Ok...so its probably been asked a million times before about the timing belt/Aux,pulley etc..., but I'm gonna try and ask this in a different way.

I'm looking for a 172 (Ph1), I don't wanna spend 2k+ on a mint low miler as I'll be driving it a lot and although I have a garage, it would be on the drive most of the time, exposed to kids running around and on bikes! 80% of the ones I've seen have either a part history or no history, but regardless of that I'd be looking at changing the belt/pulley anyway.

I've never had one before (Had '92 16V before but not a 172/182), I'm a qualified Mechanic...all be it from the late 90's, but I've been fixing planes since then and also had god knows how many cars that I generally maintain myself (Unless I'm stuck for time). I'm happy to buy a car needing some work, I presume I'll need certain tools to do the belt/pulley if required, will the price difference between the cars be worth the outlay of the tools and parts? (I've not looked at the cost yet), just nice to get other peoples opinions as well as my own

Cheers

 

[MicKPM]

Tbh I think the values are about as low now as they're going to be and prices will reflect conditions and functionality of equipment. I'd gladly buy a car needing belts and de phaser but I have the advantage of being able to do most jobs myself. That being said I'd look for electronics issues as these can be costly to fix if you don't understand the tech.

 

[Phil_H]

Cheers...

I'm an Aircraft Electrician by trade, so with that and my Mechanical back ground I'm not to bad. Although some car electronics can be quite complicated from passed experience!

 

[MicKPM]

You will no doubt have a full understanding on CANBUS then which to most "garages" is still witchcraft in Automotive Engineering.

You will need the manuals and tools to do the belts along with tools that can accurately dial in fixing values and angles (Most of us use Snap-On "TechAngles") as there's no room for angle wheels unless the engine is out of the car.

Great little cars though, proper fun, but buy a bad one and it won't be much fun fixing it all the time where as a good one will make you smile as they are seriously so versatile

 

[Phil_H]

Yeah thats my question really....

How much will all the tool's cost....compared to having the belts down by a specialist, say I keep the car for 2 belt changes over how ever many years....take into account time doing it as well.

Whats the cost of a specialist dong it? £500?

 

[MicKPM]

It depends on who you use and the parts that they use really. I for example only use genuine parts and do belts only for under £400 and belts with dephaser and minor service for under £600 (A/C models only and the 172 Cup without A/C is even cheaper).

You can get it done for around £300 but I can't comment on accuracy of prices, parts used or warranty issued. I run a legitimate business rather than a cash in hand operation so obviously I have to price to include for overheads as well as drawing a salary.

 

[Phil_H]

Hmmm....

So it may be worth paying to get it done rather than me doing it myself.

Nottingham isn't to far from me

 

[MicKPM]

It really does depend on how you rate your own ability and if you're prepared to spend out on the tooling when paying someone with experience and the tools is just easier. I'm personally all for peoples DIY belt changes providing they understand the process and don't call me when they run in to difficulty and expect step by step telephone support (seriously, it happens and people think I'm joking when I ask for their card details before proceeding).

I think we charge a fair price for the work involved and the parts used tbh but you will always find someone can do it cheaper or for less however the question is can they do it right and are they a legitimate business changing all the required parts?

 

[Phil_H]

Yes, I agree 100% with what you're saying.

I've changed loads of Cambelts, mainly VAG stuff as thats generally what my daily drives are, and all my "Second" cars or Track cars have been pre 90's stuff which are all pretty straight forward.

When the Clutch went on the Wife's Mini, I rang our local specialist, they were one of the cheaper ones and also have a very good rep....but obviously that makes them busy! It was a months wait to get it booked in, I looked round at other garages a got a couple of quotes. Its a big job on the BMW mini's as pretty much everything up the front end bar the engine have to come off, think the book time is 8hrs or there abouts, anyway, after having a think about it I decided to do it myself, the other garages had only done a couple between them, and they all were quite reluctant to want the work by the sounds of it! So I decided that I trusted myself to do it more than a garage with little experience of them. A couple of months on and so far so good

 

[MicKPM]

I've seen that job being done and it's horrendous looking but then again, the Clio is pretty catastrophic to when it comes to a clutch change.

 

[Phil_H]

This was about 3/4's of the way there. Just the driveshafts and Starter left before I could remove the 6 Gearbox bolts and lift it out (loads of access once you get there haha)

 

[MicKPM]

They're bad for gearboxes I believe to.

 

[Bluebeard]

Hmmm....

So it may be worth paying to get it done rather than me doing it myself.

Nottingham isn't to far from me

The parts (cambelt kit, Aux belt kit, cam plugs, bottom pulley bolt, dephaser, oil, filter) cover a fair old chunk of the price the specialists quote. Bear that in mind!

My guy charges me £100 for fitting which puts him (A cash in hand guy!) not a million miles away from Mick who is a legitimate business.

 

[mattjk]

If you have the ability to tackle that on a mini youd be fine with cambelt. Proper tools tho may make the job uneconomical.

 

[Marcos999]

They're bad for gearboxes I believe to.

Before '04 the Midlands 'box wasn't great, after that they switched to a Getrag 'box which was supposed to be better. Having said that I recently sold my mum's 12 year old abused Mini and the gear change was a hell of a lot slicker than my 182!

 

[Phil_H]

Yeah its the outlay for the tools that is the deciding factor. I'm pretty confident I can do most jobs on a car, a lot if the time its if I can be bothered getting dirty and having a million cuts and bruises on my arms

What was that about the Gearbox? (Apparently this is normal, they have a "lifetime" oil) Obviously I changed it whilst doing the clutch for some OEM stuff, hopefully it will last out our ownership. (The misses was eyeing up a Ph2 Cup while I was browsing eBay lol)

 

[Phil_H]

Oh to "fill" plug was the same as this!

 

[mattjk]

You say your lady drives this car. May explain the swarf... crunch... lol

 

[105e]

To me it made more sense to buy the proper tools and do it myself, didn't have to take the car anywhere and I can sell the tools on to recoup some of the cost. my previous cambelt experience, ford pinto, ford 16v engine and vag 8 and 16v was of no help.

 

[Phil_H]

Where's the best place to get the tools?

105e......does your username indicate you are/were an Anglia Fan/Owner? I had a Super and a '58 100e

 

[MicKPM]

Renault for the tools

 

[105e]

Where's the best place to get the tools?

105e......does your username indicate you are/were an Anglia Fan/Owner? I had a Super and a '58 100e

Bought my first 105e in 1972, many more later and sold my last one in 2010, all modified of course.Had thoughts on buying a 100e but ive had enough rust to last me me out.

 

[Phil_H]

I'm with you on the Rust

My 100e had been filled with paper and fibre glass...then under seal!! That was in 2005 when prices were still sub 1k so not a massive loss, The only thing I have left from it is the Number plate.