Cams.. what's needed ?

[franx]

When going for different cams, what needs to be changed in total ? Cambelt i know, but was wondering about for example the mapping (maybe not needed with some cams) and other things needed ?

What are the advantages of cam change ? I'm thinking you change the powercurve but not gain much HP ? For example the car will be more torquey but will loose on top of the rpm range ? is it

+When having a friend fit them, how much $$ am i looking at ; and what cams have the best rep ?

I'm thinking it would be an affordable+reliable mod, hoping for some opinions

 

[TomTom]

At the least

Cambelt kit
Small cam cap
Large cam cap
Cam seals
Sealant for the cam carrier

Alternater belt
Waterpump (if pulleys got play in/leaking)
Coolant 5/6 Litres (if changing water pump)​

I'd also say maybe pulleys/dephaser/tappets/followers depending on the cams?! Fred/BenR etc would probably know a bit more about them.​

As for the mapping we fitted a set of cams to a V6 MG ZS the other day and it was fine without a map, noticed increased power and a smoother rev range, idle wasn't lumpy either. Worth getting it done though as its not the same atall.​

Make sure you've got the locking tools aswell its not like an old Astra like a few people think. I'd also add its worth doing an oil and filter change whilst your at it I'd say aswell.​

 

[MarkM]

When going for different cams, what needs to be changed in total ? Cambelt i know, but was wondering about for example the mapping (maybe not needed with some cams) and other things needed ?

What are the advantages of cam change ? I'm thinking you change the powercurve but not gain much HP ? For example the car will be more torquey but will loose on top of the rpm range ? is it

+When having a friend fit them, how much $$ am i looking at ; and what cams have the best rep ?

I'm thinking it would be an affordable+reliable mod, hoping for some opinions

I have had cat cams fitted for a couple of years now on my 182. More mid range torque and top end (about 10bhp).

Car has been reliable although someone who can map them is the most important thing.

 

[franx]

Yeah Henk Fastchip would be doing mine then. How much did you spend on your conversion ?

 

[MarkM]

Yeah Henk Fastchip would be doing mine then. How much did you spend on your conversion ?

I had an OMEX ECU installed aswell with cable throttle which cost bout 3.5k.

Cams are about £600 then the labour to fit and a remap.

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

the standard setup doesn't like a big change in cam. anything over fastroad cam and you'll need an aftermarket ecu

Daz

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

Yeah Henk Fastchip would be doing mine then. How much did you spend on your conversion ?

In total about £6000

But that's for Omex, Catcams, 12.6:1 pistons, rods, ITB's, rebuild costs etc

Daz

 

[franx]

right, i was'nt thinking big difference in cams, just that extra bit that will run on standard remapped original ecu. I've read some nice things about these setups. Still idling fine and just more midrange power.
Is 200HP (little less probably) realistic running original ecu and not changing any other internals ?

** just read again** okay, fastroad cams..

 

[franx]

Yeah Henk Fastchip would be doing mine then. How much did you spend on your conversion ?

In total about £6000

But that's for Omex, Catcams, 12.6:1 pistons, rods, ITB's, rebuild costs etc

Daz

f**k !! nono , this is way over my budget hahha.. bet that car goes

 

[MarkM]

right, i was'nt thinking big difference in cams, just that extra bit that will run on standard remapped original ecu. I've read some nice things about these setups. Still idling fine and just more midrange power.
Is 200HP (little less probably) realistic running original ecu and not changing any other internals ?

Some people on here would say its possible, in my expereince your looking at 195bhp on a 182. Depends on whos RR you use .

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

right, i was'nt thinking big difference in cams, just that extra bit that will run on standard remapped original ecu. I've read some nice things about these setups. Still idling fine and just more midrange power.
Is 200HP (little less probably) realistic running original ecu and not changing any other internals ?

Doubt it, maybe if you change some externals too, don't know, i decided to go the whole hog, and pump for about 240!

Going to be tuned next week now it's run in

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

In total about £6000

But that's for Omex, Catcams, 12.6:1 pistons, rods, ITB's, rebuild costs etc

Daz

f**k !! nono , this is way over my budget hahha.. bet that car goes

Put it this way, i've just fininshed running it in, the ignition is retarded and excess fuel to protect the engine till it's tuned next week, but already it is a LOT more pokey than standard. can't wait till it's tuned. POD here i come!

 

[en035]

Yeah Henk Fastchip would be doing mine then. How much did you spend on your conversion ?

In total about £6000

But that's for Omex, Catcams, 12.6:1 pistons, rods, ITB's, rebuild costs etc

Daz

Hi Daz,

From seeing 12.6:1, I would say that you got Wossner one's.

How did you find them? Any significant gains?

Best

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

In total about £6000

But that's for Omex, Catcams, 12.6:1 pistons, rods, ITB's, rebuild costs etc

Daz

Hi Daz,

From seeing 12.6:1, I would say that you got Wossner one's.

How did you find them? Any significant gains?

Best

It's not tuned yet and i've gone from a 172 with zorst and air filter to this...looking at 240 in total, so i'm hoping for big gains. pistons seem good the coating stops pistons slap when cold. Sorry yes Wossner.

Daz

 

[franx]

trying to compare the MB lowboost turbokit with a cam-mod.. Thinking the turbo will win it though; cheaper/greater horsepower

but keep 'em coming your opinions+experiences

 

[franx]

right, i was'nt thinking big difference in cams, just that extra bit that will run on standard remapped original ecu. I've read some nice things about these setups. Still idling fine and just more midrange power.
Is 200HP (little less probably) realistic running original ecu and not changing any other internals ?

Doubt it, maybe if you change some externals too, don't know, i decided to go the whole hog, and pump for about 240!

Going to be tuned next week now it's run in

240 will be a very nice figure

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

trying to compare the MB lowboost turbokit with a cam-mod.. Thinking the turbo will win it though; cheaper/greater horsepower

but keep 'em coming your opinions+experiences

Trouble is the gearbox doesn't like lots of torque from a turbo, that's why i stayed N/A. believe me i'd like to have a 300 bhp turbo, but i like my gearbox too...........

 

[franx]

trying to compare the MB lowboost turbokit with a cam-mod.. Thinking the turbo will win it though; cheaper/greater horsepower

but keep 'em coming your opinions+experiences

Trouble is the gearbox doesn't like lots of torque from a turbo, that's why i stayed N/A. believe me i'd like to have a 300 bhp turbo, but i like my gearbox too...........

yep i know the gearbox problem.. this turbo only runs 0,5 bar and gets the car pushing 220 hp with 270NM torque. It'll be allright when watching the gearchanges.

Prob for me is that i like the driveability of the (tuned up) N/A car more than the turbocars ; when pushing hard,taking curves on the edge and the turbo kicks in it might be that little push that makes you loose control of the car

The full option MB testcar (Clio 172 cat,airco, etc.) i've driven was a lot of fun though. When fitting this to my lighter Cup (decat, buckets and no rear seats) i have to struggle to keep it on the road i'm thinking

thanks for the replies !

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

i've beaten more powerful turbo cars at the pod, due to turbolag, wheelspin on boost etc. i prefer N/A power, turbos sound nice but not as nice as boddies! lol

 

[Fastchip]

Frank, did you see Alper's result here ?
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=289188

Roughly 15 kW increase over stock AND driveabilty is pretty impressive.
Still idles almost as stock engine does.
Interesting option for your lightweight Ragnotti.

 

[en035]

Frank, did you see Alper's result here ?
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=289188

Roughly 15 kW increase over stock AND driveabilty is pretty impressive.
Still idles almost as stock engine does.
Interesting option for your lightweight Ragnotti.

Here is the RS GURU, Henk,

After Henk's remap, car pulls like a train. Enormous difference. Car was running on superchips previously. We discovered it was running dangerously lean.

Henk can basically control and adjust anything from the ECU. Now I got a semi-standalone system

Thanks so much Henk.

Strongly suggest RSTUNER. There is no other product available which enables you to map your car live.

Alper

 

[Fred@BTM]

^who recommend him to you

 

[en035]

^who recommend him to you

yep you did, thanks also goes to you.

Without a proper remap, cams are useless. Can work but not a significant gain.

 

[Fastchip]

Thanks Fred. Didn't know that

 

[franx]

yep Henk, i keep up to date on all the Rstuner latest ! I knew this man from Turkey was mighty happy with the results.

I was hoping that just cams with no other internal changes (psitonrods etc.) would do it for me.

Is'nt it okay to do JUST the cams and a remap ? That would save me a bag o money..
I do want the mod to be reliable though.

Alper : did you do just the cams ? (i´ve read the list of your mods)

 

[en035]

yep Henk, i keep up to date on all the Rstuner latest ! I knew this man from Turkey was mighty happy with the results.

I was hoping that just cams with no other internal changes (psitonrods etc.) would do it for me.

Is'nt it okay to do JUST the cams and a remap ? That would save me a bag o money..
I do want the mod to be reliable though.

Alper : did you do just the cams ? (i´ve read the list of your mods)

Mods are as follows

1) k-tec zorst (full inc. decat pipe and etc)
2) hill power inlet
3) all ports matched (I beleive this one helped a lot)
4) ITG panel + enlarged pipes

+ Colombo&Bariani cams

We have tried most of the available cam profiles for RS's. This is the best, Schrick's are also OK.


Now this one is on its way, 5.2 % shorter final drive (15x61 gearbox)

 

[franx]

i would really like to know your cam profile so i can compare . I know a good adres where i can get the Schrick cams. When i have the profile i know what to look for

Yes, manifold matching makes a lot of difference on some cars. I'm thinking mine are okay from factory as my car is already quite fast.

 

[en035]

i would really like to know your cam profile so i can compare . I know a good adres where i can get the Schrick cams. When i have the profile i know what to look for

Yes, manifold matching makes a lot of difference on some cars. I'm thinking mine are okay from factory as my car is already quite fast.

Just realized that you are from Holland, so no need to worry. Leave your car to Henk's magical hands

You can find the cam profile in www.colombo-bariani.com

 

[franx]

i would really like to know your cam profile so i can compare . I know a good adres where i can get the Schrick cams. When i have the profile i know what to look for

Yes, manifold matching makes a lot of difference on some cars. I'm thinking mine are okay from factory as my car is already quite fast.

Just realized that you are from Holland, so no need to worry. Leave your car to Henk's magical hands

You can find the cam profile in www.colombo-bariani.com

yeah i've spoken with Henk a couple of times. He will defo be the one to get it up + running with the mod when/if i decide to do this one.
Thanks for the link !

 

[franx]

http://www.colombo-bariani.com/catalogo.php?lang=eng

Is it the road medium or race medium ? I do'nt have the faintest clue about "lift" and blunt or sharp (as they say here in Holland)...

Nice informative site (when you know your stuff haha:clown: )

 

[franx]

Alper , after reading up on the tecnicals you must have chosen the road medium or am i wrong?

And what about these prices ; is that 725 (euro)for per shaft or for the set ? (1500 for the set sounds right i guess)

The Schrick cams i can get for around 450 , so that would come to 900 so that's a fair bit cheaper.

Anyone comment on the quality of Schrick cams ?

 

[en035]

Alper , after reading up on the tecnicals you must have chosen the road medium or am i wrong?

And what about these prices ; is that 725 (euro)for per shaft or for the set ? (1500 for the set sounds right i guess)

The Schrick cams i can get for around 450 , so that would come to 900 so that's a fair bit cheaper.

Anyone comment on the quality of Schrick cams ?

they are road medium indeed and the price is for the set. Schricks are of good quality but let me warn you they idle a little wilder than Colombo's.

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

What about catcams? ive got 422's in mine and it idles nice. about £500 for the pair i believe. check out www.catcams.be

Daz

 

[franx]

I'll look into the Cat cams, thanks !

is it just the cams that need changing when not going too radical with these or are there more parts needed (valvesprings ? etc.? ) I'm not very familiar with the technicalities

 

[en035]

I'll look into the Cat cams, thanks !

is it just the cams that need changing when not going too radical with these or are there more parts needed (valvesprings ? etc.? ) I'm not very familiar with the technicalities

do not bother unless you pick a very uprated cam profile. Sorry m8 won't recommend cat's. Not only in clios but also in some other cars we experience some problems. Tickover was horrible.

 

[franx]

I'll look into the Cat cams, thanks !

is it just the cams that need changing when not going too radical with these or are there more parts needed (valvesprings ? etc.? ) I'm not very familiar with the technicalities

do not bother unless you pick a very uprated cam profile. Sorry m8 won't recommend cat's. Not only in clios but also in some other cars we experience some problems. Tickover was horrible.

I do'nt want to bother that's just it i was wondering if i could save a lot of $$ by being able to use the OEM parts and do only the cams .. Great to hear because it will be an affordable nice mod !! will be fitting them (when/if) with a mechanically minded friend so will be saving there too. Will be paying Henk to do his map-magic, do'nt know what that will come down to.

Thanx for the comment on the Cat's also

 

[Daz Clio Cup]

I'll look into the Cat cams, thanks !

is it just the cams that need changing when not going too radical with these or are there more parts needed (valvesprings ? etc.? ) I'm not very familiar with the technicalities

do not bother unless you pick a very uprated cam profile. Sorry m8 won't recommend cat's. Not only in clios but also in some other cars we experience some problems. Tickover was horrible.

my catcam idles fine, maybe the profile. however i believe a route to power is a cam change and a lumpy idle is a tradeoff. my car doesn't stay at idle for long so i'm not bothered if its lumpy

 

[Fred@BTM]

Schricks are highly recommend from me!

 

[ben_p]

i have a CAT cam account, if you want any.... drop me a line

 

[franx]

strange thing is; my car idles lumpy now already... However i've checked under the oilcap to see if the cams are OEM (been told before how to check this) , and they're original cams.. (not out of one piece of casting/metal)

idle is really lumpy though... :S
Not a good thing when you do'nt know where the car has been and what's done to it , bloody import. I should get a RR before i decide on anything i guess

thanks for the opinions people !