can a valver have no power steering

[clean16v]

can i change my valvers PAS set up in favour of a manual rack? will the track have to be sorted as all valvers came with PAS? i know id need a custom fanbelt to get rid of pump but is ther anything else? cheers guys

 

[Matbrown]

Ask Bondy.

http://forum.cliosport.net/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=4&TopicID=81840&PagePosition=1&showActive=3&ReturnPage=Activehttp://forum.cliosport.net/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=4&TopicID=81840&PagePosition=1&showActive=3&ReturnPage=Active



Mat.

 

[clean16v]

thats where i got the idea from, had been thinking about this for a while but see major issues when it comes to the wider track on the clio as all manual racks come from lesser clios with shorter track #take a breath#

 

[Mole]

Sorry for hi-jacking this thread.. before anyone says

im thinking about converting my RT from standard steering, to power steering, but just how much work would be needed, and is it a garage job?

I dont really fancy paying extortionate amounts as im not on the best of wages, but i do love the idea of power steering.

Anyone any ideas on how complex a job this is?

 

[u33db]

why would you want to remove the power steering tho?

 

[clean16v]

pwer steering systems weigh alot, and if you take the pump out of the fan belt system it puts less strain on the engine making it rev easier and hopefully make a little more power!

 

[Mikey16vClio]

M8, ive drove a Valver with-out the PAS working and its not nice!

But if u wanna do it i dont think the pullie on the fan belt takes any power m8 so id leave the pullie there if possible and bin the rest?

 

[clean16v]

a valver with no PAS has well heavy steering, but thats cos it sstill on auto rack,if you got a manual rack it would hopefully be lighter......reckon youd be surprised how muchpower the PAS system saps.......jsut my idea tho! could be wrong

 

[TheJesus]

Does the Clio have a wider track than the 205GTI, as my m8s requires arms like a wrestler to move it, and forget about tight corners. This is with a lowered one running on 195/50/15. Is there nothing else that could be lightened?

I take it you dont have a stereo then for weight reasons either?

 

[clean16v]

Quote: Originally posted by TheJesus on 20 April 2004


Does the Clio have a wider track than the 205GTI, as my m8s requires arms like a wrestler to move it, and forget about tight corners. This is with a lowered one running on 195/50/15. Is there nothing else that could be lightened?

I take it you dont have a stereo then for weight reasons either?





no stereo, no speakers,not alot going on interior wise TBH! My reasoning is the more strain you put ont he auxillary belt, the harder it is for the engine to turn, thats why you should never race with your A/C on, or your stero turned up etc, so no PAS pump is one less thing for th ebelt to turn

 

[u33db]

Might be cheaper to modify the engine a tad more to compensate id guess but youre probably going to do that anyway....

 

[2 live]

try gettin hold of a quikrack for em mate...........if u find 1 let me kno

iv got one on the mini............its a b*****d to park but once movin its fine...2.2 turns lock to lock

 

[clean16v]

quickrack? yes please! that would be a specialist job tho,if i could just bung an RT rack on there and chuck the pump etc itd be a lot easier!

 

[cliosportcraig]

Is the track not determined by the track rod ends rather than the actual rack ? could they not be pulled out a few more turns to compensate or bespoke track rod ends made ? Sounds like a simple conversion, need any help pm me !!

 

[clean16v]

to a degree the track is determined by track rod ends, but if its a massive change then no, you need a longer rack, converting from valver track to williams track aint as simple as pulling out the track rod ends if you know what i mean?

 

[Mole]

how much work is it to either gut the PAS system out of the clio, or putting it on, as im seriously considering putting it on myself.... just not sure yet...

if i do ill have an RT rack going as i assume id need a power steering rack instead

Anyone ever done this mod before

(sorry again for hi-jacking the thread)

 

[clean16v]

would be simple enough i reckon,if you had a ll the parts, all you need is complete PAS set up from an RT, then to plumb i tin, not a job you could do yourself unless you know what your doing, IIRC ther aint alot of room by the PAS pump on RTs and changing the reck needs the car in the air and you underneath it!

 

[cliosportcraig]

Quote: Originally posted by clean16v on 20 April 2004

to a degree the track is determined by track rod ends, but if its a massive change then no, you need a longer rack, converting from valver track to williams track aint as simple as pulling out the track rod ends if you know what i mean?

I know it envolves changing wishbones etc, BUT if they are all staying the same then all you need to do is get the track the same as a standard valver by pulling out the track rod ends, because you want STANDARD valver track nothing else needs changing, so if you could find long enough track rod ends then these could be wound out to the correct track and effectively extend the rack ?

I thought RTs came with PAS ? could you not get one of them and fit all those components to your RT ?

 

[clean16v]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^may have a pint there mate, anyone else wich to comment?

 

[stan*]

an RT and a valver have the same track.

just swap the PAS rack 4 a manual one and bin the pump

 

[clean16v]

no they dont? a valver has wider track.......hence the wider arches? i think anyway

 

[TheJesus]

as far as I know the valver track is wider, and the Williams wider yet.

my m8 has a Valver and had a 1.9 Clio Diesel too, both parked in the drive, now I know the 1.9d aint an RT, but the Valver was certainly wider tracked.

 

[stan*]

they use the same wishbones.........



the wider alloys on the valver probably made it LOOK wider than the oil-burner

 

[TheJesus]

185s on the diesel, same on his valver, but the arches also make it look wider...

 

[Soneji]

Stan be quiet you are embarresing yourself. The Valver has a wider track, thats why RT driveshafts dont fit a valver. Williams suspension uses mainly R19 16V parts.



Yes you can use the valver lump with out power steering Chris Hall is dropping a F7P into a Prima and keeping the old rack afaik.



http://www.retro-renault.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23http://www.retro-renault.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23



As for power gains, well yes you will see some but if you are going to do that you would be just as well replacing the water pump for an electrical unit as this can save around 5bhp ish

 

[stan*]

the driveshafts are the same length. as are the wishbones. i found this out from putting a valver lump in my RT, using the valver driveshafts and the RT wishbones (which were the same as the valver ones i had, thats why i didnt change them). u wouldnt want to use RT drivshafts cos they are not as beefy......

im hardly gonna get embarresed over whether or not a valver has the same track as an RT, am i ??!!

but if i had a 3.5 inch c**k like u...........!

 

[BenR]

dont be so generous stan.

 

[stan*]

lol!!

 

[clean16v]

back on topic, can i get away with sticking an RT rack in, will i encounter problems with the shorter track?

 

[JAY172]

some of the new clio models with electric pas keep the same aux belt etc as the fluid pas systems but you a dummy pulley instead of the pas pump. maybe you could use this so you wouldnt have to mess about finding a different aux belt etc. all you would need to do then is to change the steering rack and remove the pipework.

 

[clean16v]

ok, but would an RT rack fit? taking the pump off and finding an aux belt aint much of a problem if i KNOW the RT rack will fit?

 

[JAY172]

i should think it should fit. you might need an rt column as well if the rack to column uj is a different size or something.

 

[Ben j]

surely u can remove the pump and change the belt for a smaller on then the only reason the steering is heavy is because of the fluid in there is not being pumped, so drain all the fluid out the system too and it will be fine

 

[bondy]

its easy done remove pump make bracket 4 alternator get smaller belt buy quik rack fit rack job done result is

lighter faster and less drag on engine more bhp

ps full powersteering setup for sale with two pumps pm me with offers

 

[JAY172]

Quote: Originally posted by Ben j on 20 April 2004

surely u can remove the pump and change the belt for a smaller on then the only reason the steering is heavy is because of the fluid in there is not being pumped, so drain all the fluid out the system too and it will be fine

its heavy because the rack uses a different ratio on the rack/pinion because it is power assisted. you will need to change the rack.

 

[stan*]

column is ok. straight swap with the racks.

 

[JAY172]

id say you need then-

1,standard rt non pas steering rack

2,dummy pas pump/pulley of a new shape clio( the latest 1.4 and 1.6 models with electric pas have them)

3,tracking check done afterwards

you would also need to remove the pas pipes and reservoir

 

[clean16v]

ok, next wuestionis how easy is it to change the rack on a valver/willy?

 

[Soneji]

Well if thats the case why do renault sell separate shafts for 16V/RT then?

 

[2 live]

as said b4 mate.......valver shafts are more robust.......

quikracks rock......soooooooooo precise