Choosing cams...?

[The Seer]

Looking at upgrading the cams soon for my 182 Cup along with inlet matching and a re-map.

I've done a search, so I've a rough idea of what sort of price to pay and what sort of power to expect.

I'm quite tempted by GDI's cam package, including matched inlets and a re-map. Good price also. Anyone else using this package? If so pleased with the results?

I wondered who else apart from Cat and Shrick manufacturers cams and is there any difference in reliabilty and performance?

I'm heard that AngelWorks can supply and fit cams also. Pleasing results with performance and work done?

Replies appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[Fred@BTM]

cat, schrick, colombo and barini, piper (s**t) plus 2 others i forget

i'd go for schrick everytime

 

[The Seer]

^ I presume these are far more expensive than the Cat items? May I ask why this is your choice?

 

[ben_p]

cat £600

schrick £750 iirc

CAT have some really good profiles and are still a billit cam, I'm not sure if there is any back to back graphs/power runs done with the schricks and CAT, but BenR uses the CAT cam every time.

We can fit schrick if you want, but they do cost extra.

 

[ben_p]

^ I presume these are far more expensive than the Cat items? May I ask why this is your choice?

awaits F1 quotes

 

[Fred@BTM]

you're paying for the name a bit with schrick, after all they do build most of the veyron engine, and do a lot of the cams for F1, i've been using schrciks for around 5years now (not just clios) and they're bloody brilliant

what's the warranty on Cat ben?

 

[ben_p]

not too sure, i'd have to ring CAT,

has a set ever gone wrong?

 

[Fred@BTM]

no idea, anythings possible when it comes to engines though!

 

[The Seer]

I'll probably save a little and use Cat cams if difference is minimal.

What sort of profile should I be looking at? May do the odd trackday here and there but the car is mainly for everyday driving. Don't want anything too lumpy on idle. Looking for reasonably smooth torque curve through out the rev range, nothing with most of the power in the last few thousand revs.

Thanks.

 

[ben_p]

there are two which run on stock managment

420 (grpN)
428

420's give a good hike in power and torque across the rev range and perform very well!

the 428's are very dull until 4.5k ish then there is a kick in the power upto the redline.

BenR finds the grpN 420s work much better on the cam package kits, the 182s dont respond too well the the 428s! the the 420s always come up top trumps!


there is also a specified AWT remap for the inlets and 420s which bena nd paul worked closely on

 

[Johnc172]

I have 428's on mine, are they the more 'lairy' of the 2?

Seems to come in 2 stages really, nothing...then 5k kick then again about 6k ish!

 

[ben_p]

yes thats the ones!

 

[Johnc172]

schweet! Been a while since i've driven it, forgotten what it's like!

 

[The Seer]

there are two which run on stock managment

420 (grpN)
428

420's give a good hike in power and torque across the rev range and perform very well!

the 428's are very dull until 4.5k ish then there is a kick in the power upto the redline.

BenR finds the grpN 420s work much better on the cam package kits, the 182s dont respond too well the the 428s! the the 420s always come up top trumps!


there is also a specified AWT remap for the inlets and 420s which bena nd paul worked closely on

Thanks for the info.

420's it is then. Do these respond better with an aftermarket ECU, such as an Omex item, or just as well with the standard o.e.m. item re-mapped?

Bearing in mind the car currently has a BTB full system, Yozzasport de-cat and an ITG Maxogen filter. The car has not been mapped so far with these mods.

 

[ben_p]

the 420s work great with the stock ecu remap! ben has had a custom one made to work with the 420 and breathing mods!

 

[TheJesus]

not a lot of difference between the 420 and 428, think they use the same exhaust cam, but the inlet is slightly wilder on the 428, nothing worth shouting about though. I'd get the 423's personally lol

 

[The Seer]

the 420s work great with the stock ecu remap! ben has had a custom one made to work with the 420 and breathing mods!

Sounds good.

Rough b.h.p. with the mods I mentioned earlier?

 

[The Seer]

not a lot of difference between the 420 and 428, think they use the same exhaust cam, but the inlet is slightly wilder on the 428, nothing worth shouting about though. I'd get the 423's personally lol

423's Whats the difference between these and the 420's and 428's?

 

[Steviant]

not a lot of difference between the 420 and 428, think they use the same exhaust cam, but the inlet is slightly wilder on the 428, nothing worth shouting about though. I'd get the 423's personally lol

423's Whats the difference between these and the 420's and 428's?

Been reading into this lately, myself.

The 423's are a rally cam, and will need an additional ecu to run them.

The only profiles that work with standard ECU are 420 and 428 cat cams.

 

[The Seer]

^ Ah, I'll avoid the 423's then. Perhaps a lumpy idle and surge of power later on?

I was advised to run an Omex item when speaking to GDI with their cam package on offer. Was told the o.e.m. item will do the job, but to do it better with more fine tuning the Omex is the item of choice. Cam profile not discussed.

Question is will the outlay of the extra expenditure reap rewards of more power? Or is it just drivability and perhaps better mpg etc. ?

 

[ben_p]

^ Ah, I'll avoid the 423's then. Perhaps a lumpy idle and surge of power later on?

I was advised to run an Omex item when speaking to GDI with their cam package on offer. Was told the o.e.m. item will do the job, but to do it better with more fine tuning the Omex is the item of choice. Cam profile not discussed.

Question is will the outlay of the extra expenditure reap rewards of more power? Or is it just drivability and perhaps better mpg etc. ?

for £1600 fitted and mapped, whats it going to get you 1-3 hp? the standard ecu is a powerful unit .... its not worth it IMO

if your going to be spending 3k on them two then you may aswell drop the cams and bolt boddies on

call ben and have a chat mate

 

[TheJesus]

The Omex is infinitely more powerful, more control etc etc and works with ITB's, wilder cams etc etc. It all depends on what the plan is, as similarly what's the point of mapping a stock ECU for it to only be replaced by a stand alone a few months down the line? That's then a waste of £300+, so it works both ways.

To the original poster - if your going for more mods later then the Omex is the best solution on the market and GDI to install and map it. It's worth phoning Ben etc and getting prices/quotes, but with AWT bear in mind that chances are it will take a long time. This may seem like a dig but it's not, call it perfectionism or lazyness on their part, either way nothing is done quickly, but as long as people are happy with the results and their expectations are realistically managed it shouldn't be a problem. Still, I'd use GDI personally, will be in and out in a day for just cams and it's a reliable conversion and they have done more of these successfully than anyone else.

 

[sandy55]

Get the 421's, mechanical throttle and Omex.

 

[Fred@BTM]

what do you do for a living john? ever thought about going into sales?? (i'm being serious for once)

 

[Fred@BTM]

LOL!!!

any of these cam'd cars ran at pod yet?? 14.1 is the quickest cammed car i've built (pod time)

 

[TheJesus]

LOL!!!

any of these cam'd cars ran at pod yet?? 14.1 is the quickest cammed car i've built (pod time)

no idea, would have thought so, but dont pay any particular attention to POD results. I'd take note back in the day when all the 1*2 boys were living in some fantasy world believing them to be quicker than a 2.0 F7R'd Mk1's. That was put right on Mk1 vs Mk2 day and a lot of the quicker Mk1's didn't even bother showing... wasn't much need tbh lol

Anyway, when you cam a car the power and SQM's will be down to the driver and the engine, as the maps are all generic, the cams if same models will be the same etc etc. The most impressive car to date I've seen is probably 2 live's down the strip. Mod for mod it's the Floyd Mayweather of Clio's (P4P champ), but nothing special was done, just some cams, pulleys, timed to standard TDC and a chip. There's not really much to camming a car, just fit some parts and hope the engine's a decent one already, this is why it's a simple 1 day job (or should be)

 

[mini-valver]

Unless you plan on running ITB's do not go standalone. It's not worth the hassle. I'd stick to the 420's and inlets and remap the lot to suit your current mods too an if your car is healthy you'll hit 200bhp and it'll be so much betteer to drive!

 

[2 live]

LOL!!!

any of these cam'd cars ran at pod yet?? 14.1 is the quickest cammed car i've built (pod time)

lol.quickest engine iv built ran 14.0.....not bad for a car built on the back street

0-60 5.63 too...who knows what itd be capable of if i had the surroundings to work on it even more


thats the clios anyway lol.

 

[TheJesus]

this is the thing, your car worked well, the mods weren't anything special though, just effective and you were fortunate to have a very strong engine you'd built yourself. To be fair I'd expect these results from you, you're almost certainly more experienced than Fred on these cars, but you are 100

You on email by the way bud?

 

[The Seer]

The Omex is infinitely more powerful, more control etc etc and works with ITB's, wilder cams etc etc. It all depends on what the plan is, as similarly what's the point of mapping a stock ECU for it to only be replaced by a stand alone a few months down the line? That's then a waste of £300+, so it works both ways.

To the original poster - if your going for more mods later then the Omex is the best solution on the market and GDI to install and map it. It's worth phoning Ben etc and getting prices/quotes, but with AWT bear in mind that chances are it will take a long time. This may seem like a dig but it's not, call it perfectionism or lazyness on their part, either way nothing is done quickly, but as long as people are happy with the results and their expectations are realistically managed it shouldn't be a problem. Still, I'd use GDI personally, will be in and out in a day for just cams and it's a reliable conversion and they have done more of these successfully than anyone else.

Thanks for the advice.

I should think when cams, inlets and live map are done that'll be it for power mods.

 

[The Seer]

Get the 421's, mechanical throttle and Omex.

421's are slightly more aggressive than the 420's? Different from 423's and 428's but in what way?

 

[The Seer]

Unless you plan on running ITB's do not go standalone. It's not worth the hassle. I'd stick to the 420's and inlets and remap the lot to suit your current mods too an if your car is healthy you'll hit 200bhp and it'll be so much betteer to drive!

Will do, don't think a standalone ECU is worth it for me.

 

[Markpw]

I had BenR drop in some 428's when my belt was changed. I already had the other usual stuff (inlets,zorst,ITG panel) then he ramapped it to suit.
I am v happy with the work done and performance.

 

[The Seer]

I had BenR drop in some 428's when my belt was changed. I already had the other usual stuff (inlets,zorst,ITG panel) then he ramapped it to suit.
I am v happy with the work done and performance.

Are the 428's pretty dead until 4K's worth of revs? Less low down pick up than o.e.m. cams?

 

[The Seer]

^ Ah, I'll avoid the 423's then. Perhaps a lumpy idle and surge of power later on?

I was advised to run an Omex item when speaking to GDI with their cam package on offer. Was told the o.e.m. item will do the job, but to do it better with more fine tuning the Omex is the item of choice. Cam profile not discussed.

Question is will the outlay of the extra expenditure reap rewards of more power? Or is it just drivability and perhaps better mpg etc. ?

for £1600 fitted and mapped, whats it going to get you 1-3 hp? the standard ecu is a powerful unit .... its not worth it IMO

if your going to be spending 3k on them two then you may aswell drop the cams and bolt boddies on

call ben and have a chat mate

Agreed, I'll be calling Ben for info. Thanks.