Clio 197 Vs 1*2

[James Mk1]

For ages I was set on getting a Trophy for my next car (currently driving my Williams 3), but now Im really really pulled towards getting an UR 197, I just think they look so good. Obviously the 1*2s feel more raw and oldschool, which is good, but how much difference is there between the performance of the 197 and the 1*2? I've pretty much gathered that overall the 1*2s are faster (due to carrying over 200kg less weight in the case of ph1 172/172 cup!), but in what areas are they mostly faster? Off the mark? Pulling from low revs?

Just want to see how much there is in it. Will going from my Williams to a 197 feel sluggish (I think i know it probaly will.. (Williams power!))

Any comments/thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[George182]

1*2s 'feel' faster - but in reality there is barely anything in it.

 

[Munson]

It won't feel as quick as a 182. In a drag race there wouldn't be much in it, but the 182 feels quicker to drive in normal conditions. They say the 197 has to be revved to get the most out of it, which is obviously true, but TBH nothing happens. You just watch the needle climbing around the rev counter and then it's time to change gear. Vtec does not kick in.

Way better car though, just a bit limp in terms of performance.

 

[Sir_Dave]

27mpg, in a car that feels slow in 90% of its powerband?

I had one for 3 weeks.

 

[LiamR172]

Ive had a few goes with 197s in my 172. Ive got an exhaust and induction kit on it and ive passed the 197 each time.

But not by much, so i doubt you'd notice it day to day!

 

[James Mk1]

It won't feel as quick as a 182. In a drag race there wouldn't be much in it, but the 182 feels quicker to drive in normal conditions. They say the 197 has to be revved to get the most out of it, which is obviously true, but TBH nothing happens. You just watch the needle climbing around the rev counter and then it's time to change gear. Vtec does not kick in.

Way better car though, just a bit limp in terms of performance.

So there is a 5k kick with the 182 but not with the 197? Its like that with my Williams, no kick or anything but constant strong pulling - which is good - but almost makes me want to cam it for that 4.5k/5k kick!

 

[James Mk1]

27mpg, in a car that feels slow in 90% of its powerband?

I had one for 3 weeks.

Does it really feel that slow? You've had a couple of trophys now havn't you, dave? How does the 197 compare to the Trophy specifically then? I almost want the thrills of a Trophy in a 197 shell, I just think the 197 looks the nuts! (turbo anyone?!)

 

[Munson]

So there is a 5k kick with the 182 but not with the 197? Its like that with my Williams, no kick or anything but constant strong pulling - which is good - but almost makes me want to cam it for that 4.5k/5k kick!

Correct, but I never felt anything approaching a 'strong pull' in the 197 I drove. I'd summarise it by saying you get the urge to do the old 'rocking backwards and forwards" trick to try and make it go faster. Show it some corners though and it'll tear a 182 a new asshole. Makes the old car feel like a jalopy.

The 197 is a great car, but just don't expect explosive performance.

 

[Chrisgti6]

There is a noticable increase in power at around 5k revs in my car......... Not sure why others don't get this?

Yes, a 1*2 will stick with you and probably even crawl past in a straight line, however the 197 is MUCH more capable in the bends. The brakes are better, the suspension is better, the interior is better, they are just a better car all round. If it's straight line speed you want, do not buy one.

You will 99.9% of the time get the negative responses towards the 197 on this site, purely because most of the members have 1*2's, so of course people will defend the car they own/have owned. If you ask the same question on 197.net the opposite will be true.

My suggestion would be it is entirely your decision and you NEED to experience both to make up your mind.

 

[Knuckles]

Buy this?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RenaultSp...1958473?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item23299c3549

 

[Knuckles]

If it's straight line speed you want, do not buy a clio

 

[Adam.P]

Buy this?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RenaultSp...1958473?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item23299c3549

That thing is mega, but shirley it's not the only itb'd 197 in the country? I may be wrong.....

Oh and on topic, I've had both, the 1*2 is a bit more raw and feels quicker. The 197 I find a nicer place to be interior wise and handling/brake wise is on another level. You need to test drive both really, only you'll know what's right for you once you've done that. I step out of mine and into my mates 172 and it just feels not as good inside, but when he puts his foot down, it feels a lot quicker, but I know there's not much between his and my 197 in terms of speed, the 172 just "feels" quicker.

 

[Ash.]

I'd buy a mint trophy I've not had a 197 but I've got a 200 and I still look at what 1*2 are for sale all the time they are more fun to drive and do feel a little bit quicker but the 200 is a nicer thing to be in.

 

[Sir_Dave]

Does it really feel that slow? You've had a couple of trophys now havn't you, dave? How does the 197 compare to the Trophy specifically then? I almost want the thrills of a Trophy in a 197 shell, I just think the 197 looks the nuts! (turbo anyone?!)

Ive had a 182, 172 cup, 3 Trophy's and a 197 Cup. 197 was bought as a replacement for my knackered old Trophy and e46 M3.

But it did the same mpg as the M3, whilst being slower than the 182. It was capable in the bends/under braking, yes, but as an overall package, i found it to be very disappointing. Hence selling it after 3 weeks, keeping the Trophy and buying a 330i touring to smoke around in daily.

Ownership review here: http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?633997-197-Cup-Nimbus-Recaros

 

[Adam.P]

Oh and mpg, mpg in the 197 sucks........ big time.

 

[jon_r]

There is a noticable increase in power at around 5k revs in my car......... Not sure why others don't get this?

Mine does the same, there is a noticeable shove at 5k, actually more so than in and of the mk2's i own or have owned in the past

Yes, a 1*2 will stick with you and probably even crawl past in a straight line, however the 197 is MUCH more capable in the bends. The brakes are better, the suspension is better, the interior is better, they are just a better car all round.

Again, agreed.

I like the Mk3 and it is the 'better car', but the fuel usage is absurd, the rear brakes aren't up to task and the front bumper doesn't fit correctly. It's also a dreadful motorway cruiser because of the gearbox.

I bought mine to use as an everyday car. It's not an everyday car, it'll drive you mad asap, and bankrupt you. Mine now gets used once a week at most. I'm due to do about 1200 miles in May + a Ring trip. It'd have been nice to use the 197, but feck that, it's not leaving the driveway.

 

[Drafting]

In my opinion the 197 is the grown up car. Okay I may be biased as I own a 197, but that aside I feel that it is far better built and as previously said it will run rings around the 1*2 when it gets to corners and braking!
If your the type that's after outright straight line power then go down the meg 225 on golf Gti route....more tune ability for a lot less money!

 

[aucky]

. It's also a dreadful motorway cruiser because of the gearbox.

There are worse cars. My MX-5 does 73mph@4000rpm lol

 

[James Mk1]

Interesting opinions, strange how some feel the 5k kick and other dont in the 197s, does the 1*2 have a definitive 5k kick then?

 

[MarkCup]

It's there in mine too, allowing for the extra 200kgs my 200 carries compared to my 172 Cup, the 5k 'kick' is just as hard and pronounced.

Is one faster than the other in a straight line or round bends? Not really. Not enough that it would make any difference to your progress.

The 200 does feel better though, more solid, more stable, more capable, more practical, less likely to crumble into dust.

If that's what you want, you have to pay for it though with ridiculous running costs.

 

[James Mk1]

What ridiculous running costs? Obviously fuel is a big one - i'm guessing you mean bigger tyres/brakes and other consumables?

 

[Chrisgti6]

Interesting opinions, strange how some feel the 5k kick and other dont in the 197s, does the 1*2 have a definitive 5k kick then?

I think it can be down to bad cam timings? Some cars will have had the belts done now, and if not done properly it can lose power.

ignore the comments about it not being an everyday car, of course it is! It's a Renault clio FFS! Aside from low MPG (25-30mpg for me most of the time) it costs no more to run than any other car IMO. I've had mine almost a year now and done about 10k in it, I think I'm in a pretty good position to comment.

Also, there is nothing wrong with the rear brakes, that's the first time I've ever seen them mentioned other than the handbrake seizing on in cold weather!

 

[MarkCup]

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...ear-costs-of-my-200&highlight=full+year+costs

 

[Dan]

I think what you can say in this situation is.......

Do you want a sensible car that's a better build quality but yet pretty quick but also quite sedate at the same time?

Or do you want a car that you can save money when purchasing and money on fuel with more of a fun drive to it yet it compromises on the interior quality.

If you chose the cheaper one you could pull back the cornering capabilities of the 197 with a few mods.

But then you also have the shape of the car to mull over lol

 

[jonnyrobert]

A little off topic hear but my 182 with a deccatted yozza and panel filter absolutely left a mate going up a hill in his 200.

Maybe his was slow or mine was a fast one. Who knows but there was a noticeable difference

 

[Chrisgti6]

£1300 on tyres and servicing in 8k miles? How exactly?

edit, I've just realised you did more miles than that. The 8k was on that set of tyres! Doh.

Still seems a lot for a year though.

 

[Dan]

A little off topic hear but my 182 with a deccatted yozza and panel filter absolutely left a mate going up a hill in his 200.

Maybe his was slow or mine was a fast one. Who knows but there was a noticeable difference

Also if he doesn't know how to use the car this can happen.

To many variables in this street racing rubbish to be able to use it as a point on here

 

[Dan]

£1300 on tyres and servicing in 8k miles? How exactly?

How much do say a set of PS3s cost for the 197 wheels?

 

[Drafting]

I've got to love the way people slate 197/200 due to fuel costs...even though they drive 1*2, lets all face it, we, as a forum have bought our cars because they are FUN!
If you were concerned about mpg then you'd all be on the Toyota hybrid forum!!

 

[MarkCup]

3 sidewall punctures in one year...

I don't like mixing tyres or putting a brand new one on vs 3 that are already worn 50% so they cost me a few £s.

 

[Dan]

I've got to love the way people slate 197/200 due to fuel costs...even though they drive 1*2, lets all face it, we, as a forum have bought our cars because they are FUN!
If you were concerned about mpg then you'd all be on the Toyota hybrid forum!!

No if I didn't care about fuel I would own an Impreza WRX STI as they can be had for about the same as a Clio now days.

Or even an old BMW 328

But the Clio 182 gets very good MPG when I want it to but it also goes really well when I don't care about how much fuel I'm saving!

I didn't buy a racing car I bought a car I can use every day and then pull up at a track and hoon round for fun.

 

[Drafting]

But you'd then want to spend the difference on the fuel for mods that you may want so that it handles on the track. No real winner between the two!

 

[Sir_Dave]

But you'd then want to spend the difference on the fuel for mods that you may want so that it handles on the track. No real winner between the two!

Nothing wrong with the way a 1*2 handles on the track.

 

[Knuckles]

I used to own a mk2 1.4 rep, and when I got my big bit job, I wanted a big boy car... I was initially looking at meg 175s, the 2.0 DCi RS, but I found out I could insure a mk3 clio for not much more.

When I first sat in it, the build quality and space was immediately miles ahead of the mk2s, and since I was due to be spending a lot of time on motorways (ill get to that soon lol) It would be a nice change.

and obviously, coming from a dinky 1.4, the 197 felt immensely quick, the thing just revved and revved, I definitely felt the kick. The main thing I noticed was how hard the suspension/recaros were! I thought my coilovered 1.4 was harsh... So I initially thought "wtf have I bought!?" Driving while needing the bog was painful. It was like being punched in the bladder every time you hit a bump, that soon wore off, as did the power (again due to the motorway).

stupidly, I bought the 197 with an impending 90 mile a day commute, which cost me ~£70 per week in fuel. I was achieving 36mpg on the motorway in steady traffic from Wigan to Wales. It was a comfy little commuter, twist the recaros back to the lounge position and cruising at 60-70 on my way there then 80+ back.

After a few months of that, it started to feel slow since it was just sat in 6th most of its life. So on the occasion I did get to take it on a blast, it again felt rapid. And after reading reviews about its cornering prowess I thought I'd see how fast and stable it could corner... I backed out well before the car, that's on budgets that came on the front. I also to iced that lots of reviews commented on how tail happy they were, I thought you had to be a decent driver to get some oversteer but I found out on a drive round north Wales with some people off here that they just like to kick their arse out. It is very easy to bring back in though... I also had a brown pants moment on a slightly damp cambered roundabout where I got a shed load of lift off oversteer, It sorted out easy enough with some throttle but bricks were genuinely shat lol, I must've looked like an utter hero, or an utter t**t to the cars around me, I suspect i was the latter lol

one day on my commute I did play with a 182 from the m62 to the Wigan turn off of the m6, I seemed to have the legs on it but that could be down to it being underpowered or that he had a passenger.

once I moved closer to work and I had a few miles of roundabouts to negotiate, my mpg has dropped to around 29/30, mixed driving.

So yeah, there's my two penneth

There are worse cars. My MX-5 does 73mph@4000rpm lol

Early 197s before the revised box did that lol

 

[Munson]

I think it can be down to bad cam timings? Some cars will have had the belts done now, and if not done properly it can lose power.

ignore the comments about it not being an everyday car, of course it is! It's a Renault clio FFS! Aside from low MPG (25-30mpg for me most of the time) it costs no more to run than any other car IMO. I've had mine almost a year now and done about 10k in it, I think I'm in a pretty good position to comment.

Also, there is nothing wrong with the rear brakes, that's the first time I've ever seen them mentioned other than the handbrake seizing on in cold weather!

So basically you're telling the OP to ignore all opinions other than yours? Good one.

 

[aucky]

the correct decision is my decision

- J. Balestre

 

[Chrisgti6]

So basically you're telling the OP to ignore all opinions other than yours? Good one.

No, please re-read my post. The only comment I said to ignore was the comment about it not being an everyday car. I'm pretty sure you'll agree that a Clio 197 is a car that can be driven every day, just like most other cars.

 

[Munson]

No, please re-read my post. The only comment I said to ignore was the comment about it not being an everyday car. I'm pretty sure you'll agree that a Clio 197 is a car that can be driven every day, just like most other cars.

OK fair enough. I don't want to debate it. Your post reads like you're telling the OP to ignore the opinions of other people who have also owned a 197.

 

[The Fatty]

the 5k kick is actually the end result of a 4.7k dip. If you look at a rolling road printout you will notice the power drops in the late 4k and then picks up again at around 5k. Some people have got rid of this 'dip' with IK mods & remaps. 182 is the more fun car to drive imo, but the 197's do look really good and are still a very fun car. Also 1*2's are perfectly capable in the corners. (just to confuse you a bit more!)

 

[Chrisgti6]

OK fair enough. I don't want to debate it. Your post reads like you're telling the OP to ignore the opinions of other people who have also owned a 197.

It wasn't meant to, I just hate it when an everyday hot hatch is treated like some super car, only being driven once a week, fortnight, year etc.

My comment on the rear brakes was purely because I've never heard any complaints about them, personally I think the 197 is over-braked from the factory. It isn't powerful enough to need the brakes it comes with! Whenever I drive my wife's Ibiza it takes me 10 minutes to get used the how shocking the brakes are and that's only got 3k on the clock!

anyway, back on topic. I stand by my comment that the only way to decide is by testing both. Only you can decide which is right for you. You will always get many different opinions on a forum!