Clio RS tuning

[DEJAN]

HI,

I have a plan to tune my RS. I am thinking in removing the cat, chip, another cams and BMC Carbon Air Box!
Can some tell me how much power can I get with this things and if it worth to change the cams? Is the difference when changing the cams big or not? If some one have some experience in that kind of tuning please give me some advices!

THANKS

DEJAN

 

[Man-Chun]

I was thinking of doing the same but also doing the head. Which would take it near 200Bhp. Without the head you would be looking at 190 ish Bhp?. Not too sure I wont be doing this till later on in the year. Maybe you can tell me if there is any diff when you fit the cams , but you should notice better mid range and high end power. But for full effect you would have to fit vernier pulleys to make the most of your cams.

Chun.

 

[DEJAN]

Hi,

I would tell you if there is any difference when my car is done. But tell me something, what must I do with the head?
You said that I must get 200 HP with head, its that all or could I get more, because only 30 HP isnt much. I must get 15 HP with cams + 10 HP with chip + 10 HP with filter and no cat . That is ca. 35 without doing head. When I calculate 10 HP with head that must be minimum 210 HP. Tell me if I am wrong ?

DEJAN

 

[Man-Chun]

You might not need to head to make 200Bhp. But I dont think you can add Bhp up like that tho. It all really depends what power your car starts of with, Clio 172s have been know to range from 160Bhp - 175Bhp standard. Each car reacts differently to mods one car might only need Cams, Chip, Exhaust, Induction kit to make 200Bhp while another car might need to have the head done as well to achieve this Bhp. My target is 200Bhp and I will try to achieve this power with the mods i listed. If i get more then it would be a bonus So the answer to your question is you might not need the head done to get 200Bhp

Chun.

 

[DEJAN]

Hi,

Can you tell me what are the cost of such tuning in your country?

THANKS

 

[Man-Chun]

Sorry I dont really know. When i phoned Hill Power i wasnt given a solid price.

Chun.

 

[DEJAN]

Can someone tell me where can I get Sport Flywheel for my car and what are benefits of fitting sport flywheel?

THANKS

 

[Nick Read]

Dunno where youd get a sport flywheel but the only thing that you ever do with a flywheel is lighten it so that it spins up faster. You machine the existing flywheel to make it lighter. Therefore it will rev quicker, not so much momentum in it.

 

[Nick Read]

BTW regarding head work, I dont know if head work on the 172 lump would actually yield that much power? From various things Ive heard its definitely not a new engine design, just an older 2.0 engine which has been extensively worked on to get it to give the power it does now.

Its already in quite a high state of tune, so there might not be actually that much you could do with the head. The cams and a new managament chip would definitely work but youd see maybe 25bhp with that, close to the 200bhp mark but I doubt youd go to 200 + with just that.

I might be wrong about the head having already been worked on by Renault Sport, but thats just a gut feeling I have about it. The 172 lump is kind of the opposite of the 16v, which was a big engine with relatively mild performance for its size and a pretty narrow power band. Theres plenty of power to be had there by modifying the internals, whereas the 172 has already had a lot of the work done.

 

[Man-Chun]

Yeah thats true, but some of the tuners from france seem to get power from head work. so there must be some BHP left to gain from a head I know what you mean tho. With Cams, Chip, Exhaust, Induction Kit you will be in the 190+ Bhp area, getting near the 100Bhp per litre mark. At the moment it looks like I have to give the head work a miss , damn insurance will take too much of a bite from my modifiying money for me to do the head work So DEJAN tell me what Bhp you get when you have finished your mods.

Thanks,

Chun.

 

[Nick Read]

Youre right Chun, there are gains to be had, but I dont think youd see a hell of a lot. More likely that headwork will just complement any other mods you do rather than give good power on its own.

 

[DEJAN]

Hi,

Can someone tell me how much will I become in accelerations when I lighten the flywheel? What about top speed?

THANKS

 

[Nick Read]

Acceleration might improve slightly, top speed not really, unless youve chaged the rev limit.

Really, flywheel lightening is the sort of thing you do after youve worked on the head, just to go that one step further and complement the head work.

 

[NunoAnunes]

Nick Read , not so , nooot so .

You reaaly wanna know where the F4R gets the extra 22 BHP (claimed) over the F7R of the Williams ?

Easy , distribuition , diferent head alltogether, the VVT that alows to get more overlap in High RPm without messing with low end torque , bigger plenum chamber , diferent management system , better exhaust manifold (thats why you havent got to change it to get bigger bhp) .

I have now in my garage 2 Clio 172 engine heads , the TechnoMap one , witch is already "worked" on , and the original one , plus the one fitted in my car .

There is BIG difference , the original head is good , but you defiitely get more power by doing some work in it .

But real power figures are 5 bhp for a light head work , 7 bhp for the Cams (strongly not recomend this one ) .

With Head , Chip , and cams you get @195 BHP , more power only with throtle bodies .

Vernier pulleys in the 172 are not available , and probably never will be , because Renault Uses a very particular way of fixing the pulleys to the cams .

To remove and fit cams you need a special Key provided by Facom to renault , this key locks the cams and crankshaft in position , because the pulleys havent got any pin or markings in them .

 

[Nick Read]

Fair enough, but then what youre saying are the advantages of the F4R over the F7R is basically down to the VVT (which rules out messing around with the cams too much), a different management system (it has to be anyway because of the VVT) and all the rest you mentioned could mostly be achieved through working over an F7R head surely? If you were doing proper head work on a Williams, youd look at those exact things you mentioned, modifying the head and manifolds to get them flowing better.

So to my mind that still makes the F4R like a modified-head F7R with VVT.

 

[Man-Chun]

So its not recommended to fit cams?. Can I ask why not?. 5Bhp is not a lot for head work when you concider the amount of money you have to pay for it.

Chun.

 

[Nick Read]

Well Im no guru with 172s but I wouldnt want to mess about with VVT cams full stop. The cars designed to be mellow when doing the shopping then a beast when you floor it. With fixed cam profiles and valve timing like on a 16v you get a road cam and thats it. However much you floor it youre still stuck with road timing. You have to compromise - either a wilder fast road or rally cam, or a normal road cam which behaves itself in normal driving. With a 172 you can have both, so why change it?

The best way to get more power in a 172 has to be fettling with the induction and exhaust - throttle bodies would definitely help.

Or nitrous, which would be a lot simpler and guaranteed to work. And cheap as well.

 

[NunoAnunes]

It is not recomended to change Cams in a F4R , because of the VVT and also because of the rest of the distribuition , the 172 cams are very particular , they are hollow , made in a VERY VERY hard metal , and they are already very radical to start with .

Ok , if you want to change them , and if you want to take out the best from the engine , a Renault Specialist in Portugal that prepares the 172 for Rallies and for the Clio Cup only recomends TechnoMap cams , because they are original reworked cams .

He has tried other cams , from diferent French companies and lost 2 engines in the process , and almost lost the third one when he opened up the head and found bits of metal from the cams all over the place.

And The car is very undriveable with even more wild cams than the original ones.

Nick Read , If I knew what I know today about the 172 , I would have bougt a Willy instead , I like the Williams hanling allot more , and the Williams has as much potential has a 172 .

The F4R is a VVt breathed on version of the F7R .

 

[Man-Chun]

So really Im down to Chip, Exhaust, Air filter?. Lol. Dont think ill be getting near 190 Bhp then

Chun.

 

[Man-Chun]

Better change my name my profile again .

Chun.

 

[jwroot]

You can get close Chun,

Ive got 187bhp out of my mk1 172. With a full magnex system, Superchips upgrade and greens replacement filter. You could probably get a bit more out if you used the decat pipe too.

Hope you can live with a 3bhp difference

Cheers

Jase

 

[jwroot]

Nick,

Not been too technical on the mechanics of the 172, can you explain what the enlarged throttle bodies would achieve.

Cheers

Jase

 

[Simon]

Guys, I had my car on a rolling road Saturday just gone. 160 bhp @ the wheels. Ive got BMC cold air induction kit with homemade air scoop and piping plus a magnex cat back system.

Im not too sure what the BHP is at the
flywheel - perhaps 185 BHP.

Does anyone know what percentage to apply to flywheel BHP to get @ wheels BHP????

 

[Man-Chun]

Thats really good power for BMC + Exhaust I think theres 15-20 percent power loss through your transmisson. So if had 160 Bhp at the wheels and 15 percent loss your looking at 185Bhp at the Flywheel.

Chun.

 

[BenR]

just read all this talk about the cams etc on the F4R. And from what i know, i agree with most [people you dont want to touch the original cams. Its not that they are radical, but, changing duration, would mean changing the amount of overlap you would experience when the cams are activated. Head work on a motor such as the F4R would yeild very little as its more about air speed rather than flow. there is a point where air flow reaches its maximum and any bigger is just decreasing airspeed in the port. With only a finite amount of suction that the pistons moving down can produce, you want the maximum airflow at the maximum airspeed. by adding throttle bodies, you will effectively be able to decrease the amount of corners the air will encounter, incresing airspeed for any given port size. It will increase torque and pickup mostly, as there can only be 100%VE for any cylinder. The best thing to do is have good approach and divergent angles and have air flow smoothly around valve stems, guides and seats (3 or 5 angle jobbie is easiest). Having throttle bodies will also mean you will have to suck in hot air from the engine compartment, not good. The easiest way to power on the 172 head, is a little porting, but mostly smoothing flow by having a 3 angle valve seat, thin valve stems, a higher lift cam (leave duration the same) and stronger valve springs to increase RPM. Cause its the size of the bangs X bythe numberof bangs per min.....so, just increase the number of the bangs!
The overlap just creastes an area of lower pressure behind the exhaust valve to help suck fresh air into the cylinder.....only works at high rpm though.
Anybody daring enough to put their 172 up to the test?

 

[BenR]

oh yeah, no more than 20% transmission loss, which i still think is still way too much!