Clio V6 mk1 OR Escort Cossy

[Ian_182]

Try an engine rebuild every couple of years and the evo is not a million miles away in terms of servicing.I think too many people nowadays dont realise what there taking on when they get a so called bargain cossie or evo...the bills are huge for most turbo petrol cars

But cossies do have such road presence

 

[007]

A nice untuned Escort Cossie will run fine with no more problems than most other cars - unfortunatly it isnt any faster than a 172.

Mild tuning is the way to go - A Stage 1 Fiesta RST is no more unreliable than a standard one (not sure whether thats a good or bad argument LOL)

I know someone with a stage 1 Fiesta RST on 150,000 miles original turbo, gearbox etc. He doesnt drive like a granny but does look after his car.

Escort Cossies are the same.

Older cars do seem to be more over-engineered than newer ones - the poor old Williams gearbox is lucky to see 80,000 miles on a standard car.

As far as badge snobbery - I can see BMW owners looking down on Fords but not Renault owners - my current 13 year old car is far better put together than our 6 month old company Megane.

 

[u33db]

Quote: Originally posted by ian 172 on 15 November 2004


The escort cosworth in standard 227bhp form gets to 100 in 18 secs which is standard 172 territory,An evo would trounce it and so would the V6.

Although they pounce of the line with 4wd and get to 60 in 5.7 secs the 4wd kills the power big time.Which would explain when i race my mate in his round an island ond onto a d/c from around 25mph plus he doesnt really get anywhere,yet he has nearly 100 bhp more than me......The other thing with the cossie engines is their reliability.......A 330 bhp model will need a rebuild every 10-15k at a cost of £3grand a pop and thats if you know good people

I have to disgree with this im afriad. At the end of the day the ford weighs nearly the same as a 172 and has considerably more power - it will definately be faster despite the 4x4 issue. Dont think im starting an arguement but your mates one must be in poor tune or he cant drive - my valver is 172 territory but noway is it in cosworth territory. More power is more power at the end of the day.

 

[jonathon555]

Quote: Originally posted by ian 172 on 15 November 2004


The escort cosworth in standard 227bhp form gets to 100 in 18 secs which is standard 172 territory,An evo would trounce it and so would the V6.

Although they pounce of the line with 4wd and get to 60 in 5.7 secs the 4wd kills the power big time.Which would explain when i race my mate in his round an island ond onto a d/c from around 25mph plus he doesnt really get anywhere,yet he has nearly 100 bhp more than me......The other thing with the cossie engines is their reliability.......A 330 bhp model will need a rebuild every 10-15k at a cost of £3grand a pop and thats if you know good people

A good example of this power sapping is getting an evo 6 on the track against a rwd 3door cossie with 330 bhp...Down the straight the cossie would kill the evo......does anyone remember the clarkson vid of the m3 roadster killing a evo 6 down the straights in a mad dash a few years back





put 330 bhp in an evo & it will soon do the m roadster, The evo is a tarmac terrorist car.

It is one of the fastest cars a to b ever to be put on this planet.

 

[Ian_182]

i dont think it would tbh,the m roadster would still win and so would the cossie,my mate has rroad printouts and he is annoyed at my poor french hatch staying in his mirror but facts are facts......there is just too much hype with these foreign 4wd cars,dont forget the cup left the 215 bhp on a b road thrash in evo a couple of years back....you really need big power nowadays to get the reaction you think you would get.

ian

 

[jonathon555]

Quote: Originally posted by ian 172 on 15 November 2004


i dont think it would tbh,the m roadster would still win and so would the cossie,my mate has rroad printouts and he is annoyed at my poor french hatch staying in his mirror but facts are facts......there is just too much hype with these foreign 4wd cars,dont forget the cup left the 215 bhp on a b road thrash in evo a couple of years back....you really need big power nowadays to get the reaction you think you would get.

ian





Now i understand the theory you are working with & i respect that you may not have had first hand experienceof an evo. But i can quite honestly say a clio cup would not get anywhere near an Evo 6 on a B road nor would an M roadster. If you drive an Evo 6 with 330 BHP you may find that the Fifth gear acceleration is more comparable to the Clios 3rd gear.

The handling & Grip is from another dimension.

The M roadster in its own right is a good car & so is the clio cup, but the Evo is in a different league all together.

 

[Dan_mk1]

I wouldnt say an M roadster is out of an evos league, a M roadster is a supercar, make no mistake about it....0-100 in low 12s iirc

 

[Ian_182]

Quote: Originally posted by jonathon555 on 15 November 2004

Quote: Originally posted by ian 172 on 15 November 2004


i dont think it would tbh,the m roadster would still win and so would the cossie,my mate has rroad printouts and he is annoyed at my poor french hatch staying in his mirror but facts are facts......there is just too much hype with these foreign 4wd cars,dont forget the cup left the 215 bhp on a b road thrash in evo a couple of years back....you really need big power nowadays to get the reaction you think you would get.

ian






Now i understand the theory you are working with & i respect that you may not have had first hand experienceof an evo. But i can quite honestly say a clio cup would not get anywhere near an Evo 6 on a B road nor would an M roadster. If you drive an Evo 6 with 330 BHP you may find that the Fifth gear acceleration is more comparable to the Clios 3rd gear.

The handling & Grip is from another dimension.

The M roadster in its own right is a good car & so is the clio cup, but the Evo is in a different league all together.

jonathan i think you misunderstood me,i never once said an evo would loose to a cup but evo did a thrash around some b roads and the scooby uk lost out to the cup and focus.....The M roadster is one of the most under rated cars i can think of........and for the evo being good,yes its one of the best but round the old bedford autodrome the 182 is only 1 second a lap behind the evo8 260,of course in the wet it would be a different story,but this shows how capable front drive hatches are getting when you compare it to an old standard escort cosworth

 

[jonathon555]

Quote: Originally posted by ian 172 on 15 November 2004

Quote: Originally posted by jonathon555 on 15 November 2004

Quote: Originally posted by ian 172 on 15 November 2004


i dont think it would tbh,the m roadster would still win and so would the cossie,my mate has rroad printouts and he is annoyed at my poor french hatch staying in his mirror but facts are facts......there is just too much hype with these foreign 4wd cars,dont forget the cup left the 215 bhp on a b road thrash in evo a couple of years back....you really need big power nowadays to get the reaction you think you would get.

ian






Now i understand the theory you are working with & i respect that you may not have had first hand experienceof an evo. But i can quite honestly say a clio cup would not get anywhere near an Evo 6 on a B road nor would an M roadster. If you drive an Evo 6 with 330 BHP you may find that the Fifth gear acceleration is more comparable to the Clios 3rd gear.

The handling & Grip is from another dimension.

The M roadster in its own right is a good car & so is the clio cup, but the Evo is in a different league all together.

jonathan i think you misunderstood me,i never once said an evo would loose to a cup but evo did a thrash around some b roads and the scooby uk lost out to the cup and focus.....The M roadster is one of the most under rated cars i can think of........and for the evo being good,yes its one of the best but round the old bedford autodrome the 182 is only 1 second a lap behind the evo8 260,of course in the wet it would be a different story,but this shows how capable front drive hatches are getting when you compare it to an old standard escort cosworth



Ok sorry if i misunderstood, The clio is a cracking car & so is the M roadster.

I was so impressed with the clio when i drove one that i went out & the very next day. I still have a mk1 172 with a few power toys added & i believe it would give a standard escort cossie a good run for its cash, it has already scalped a 2.7 boxter & a lancia integrale in a straight line. I agree that the high power clios have performance now, that is comparable to european super performance cars of 12 years ago.

Until the jap import invasion of the late 90s the escort cossie was a king car & there is still some that can easily hold there own with the jap stuff.

But the M roadster is an underated car i agree, but it is fast car in every right. But the Jap gear just took the whole show to a new dimension & once you owned an Evo 5 or 6 you would hopefully agree.

 

[JayR]

Cossie deffo for me!!!! Must be an escort tho!!!!

Id just as easily take a Vee tho!!!!

 

[Ian_182]

yes jonathan i agree there

ian

 

[RobFenn]

It would be a hard choice, the Cosworth is a legend, but unfortunately for a load of Essex boys who wear Argos gold chains. Id have to keep it standard to justify getting it as a classic.

The Clio V6 would have to be an emotional purchase, something i could easily do, but with the amount of flaws it has i just couldnt see it happening unless it was part of a collection, a weekend car..

Id much rather spend £15-20k elsewhere to be honest.

-Rob

 

[jonathon555]

Quote: Originally posted by RobFenn on 15 November 2004


It would be a hard choice, the Cosworth is a legend, but unfortunately for a load of Essex boys who wear Argos gold chains. Id have to keep it standard to justify getting it as a classic.

The Clio V6 would have to be an emotional purchase, something i could easily do, but with the amount of flaws it has i just couldnt see it happening unless it was part of a collection, a weekend car..

Id much rather spend £15-20k elsewhere to be honest.

-Rob

5k on a mk1 172

10K on Lap dancers & champagne !!!!

Gets my vote

 

[badinvincible]

Cossie for me please, one of my all time favourite cars.

 

[beacytan]

Quote: Originally posted by ian 172 on 15 November 2004


The escort cosworth in standard 227bhp form gets to 100 in 18 secs which is standard 172 territory,An evo would trounce it and so would the V6.

Although they pounce of the line with 4wd and get to 60 in 5.7 secs the 4wd kills the power big time.Which would explain when i race my mate in his round an island ond onto a d/c from around 25mph plus he doesnt really get anywhere,yet he has nearly 100 bhp more than me......The other thing with the cossie engines is their reliability.......A 330 bhp model will need a rebuild every 10-15k at a cost of £3grand a pop and thats if you know good people

A good example of this power sapping is getting an evo 6 on the track against a rwd 3door cossie with 330 bhp...Down the straight the cossie would kill the evo......does anyone remember the clarkson vid of the m3 roadster killing a evo 6 down the straights in a mad dash a few years back

thats the biggest load of sh*t i have ever heard my mate has had a escort cossie thats standard all but an exhaust. it pisses all over my mk2 172 from 0-60 - 0-100 and when mine is doing nothing after 120 - his cossie is still pulling. your mates cossie is a total shed or hes a sh*t driver

 

[Ian_182]

his car is not standard and we race in a straight line up a D/C and i can tell you now we race and he pulls about 3 cars on me until around 110 then he keeps going and i slow in the breeze.........So you have 172 bhp in a much lighter car than an escort...your saving a good 200 kgs over him and he pisses all over you......The car aint standard or you cant drive.......Its just like racing a standard scoob 215,the weights are similar and its been proven on paper that the 0-100 times are very close.....Its only when modded which is easy that they pull away....My mates was rrd a few months ago(june time)maybe the boost has fallen off a bit i dont know...all i know is what happens when i race him..

Regards,ian

 

[miketheman2k]

M roadster is a quick car, but dont cars have to go round corners occasionally? I used to drive a Z3 2.8, and I know that the M roadster has beefier anti-roll bars, etc. but the cornering experience isnt hugely different. I span mine on the first day I had it because I didnt leave traction control on. The early M roadsters dont even come with this! A receipe for disaster I think...

mk1 V6 is much more progressive and easier to handle on the power than the Z3 family.

 

[Rob137]

I would buy a BMW everytime, My 318 has been modded to look just like an M3, using bits from ebay for under £2,000!

The performance is not exactly M3 but I would not be too far behind that old Escort Cossie!

 

[Red16]

Quote: Originally posted by Rob137 on 16 November 2004


I would buy a BMW everytime, My 318 has been modded to look just like an M3, using bits from ebay for under £2,000!

The performance is not exactly M3 but I would not be too far behind that old Escort Cossie!

F**k Off!!

your Beemer 318 M3 lookalike is slow mate, not gonne be keeping up with much to be honest, big heavy car with a not exactly high powered engine pulling it along!

 

[Type_Mo]

Quote: Originally posted by 2863 on 15 November 2004

one problem.......ITS AN ESCORT!!!!!

One problem... V6 is a clio !!!!!

So what ? People see clios as chav cars!

 

[Rob137]

Quote: Originally posted by Red16 on 16 November 2004

Quote: Originally posted by Rob137 on 16 November 2004


I would buy a BMW everytime, My 318 has been modded to look just like an M3, using bits from ebay for under £2,000!

The performance is not exactly M3 but I would not be too far behind that old Escort Cossie!

F**k Off!!

your Beemer 318 M3 lookalike is slow mate, not gonne be keeping up with much to be honest, big heavy car with a not exactly high powered engine pulling it along!





Old performance cars cannot keep up with modern metal, its a fact!

My 318i is capable of over 130 mph and the Cossie would only do 140 when it was new. With worn out turbos and half a tonne of speakers on board, Id be suprised if most Escort Cosworths could crack 130mph, which my BM will do with ease.

You could be having a tea party in the back, its so smooth at that speed!

 

[u33db]

Really? My 11 year old Clio 16v would whoop the arse of your newer 318...same size of engine and its older! However, thats not the point and neither is comparing your car to a worn out cossie (which i still think youd struggle against) - theyre a different league.

I wouldnt deny your car is smooth but dont be fooled into thinking its fast or that its cossie pace...

 

[Rob137]

I have seen off many 16v Clios, the 1.2 16v is cannon fodder as it can barely top 100mph.

Its all about top speed in this game!

 

[Red16]

Quote: Originally posted by Rob137 on 16 November 2004


I have seen off many 16v Clios, the 1.2 16v is cannon fodder as it can barely top 100mph.

Its all about top speed in this game!

open up your eyes kidda, the Clio hes talking about isnt a lowly 1.2 its the 1.8 16v, which like he says would be quicker than your german tank. Fair enough your beemer might do 130mph but the cossie would still get there before you and keep goin past that!!



Oh and you mention stability in your little post previous to the one quoted above, i know which one id rather be in at 130mph... Escort Cossie with properly wind tunnel sorted aerodynamics to give optimum downforce or your bmw family car, hmmm

 

[Rick_172]

COSSIE anyday. but be prepared for it to drive like an "old" car. irrespective of its condition.

the escort cosworth in moondust or Imperial Blue is my fave family shopper of all time

 

[u33db]

Quote: Originally posted by Rob137 on 16 November 2004


I have seen off many 16v Clios, the 1.2 16v is cannon fodder as it can barely top 100mph.

Its all about top speed in this game!

m8, your car is quoted at about 10secs 0-60 and thats without your 18s! A Cossie will do it in about 6 - thats HALF of your car so how can you claim itd not be far behind?! No offense but FOOL.

 

[Red16]

Quote: Originally posted by u33db on 16 November 2004

No offense but FOOL.

Bollox to the offense bit the man is a buffoon!!

 

[Rob137]

Well what a friendly welcome to the forum! NOT

I have suggested an alternative to the 2 cars in question, which will be cheaper in the long run, is as fast on UK roads, has legendary reliability and has the looks of a supercar (M3).

How dare you call my car a family car, with its bodykit and 18s it looks like a supertourer, does your clio look like the basic model (shopping car).

Aerodynamics have moved on since the Ford Escort, the M3 is capable of 155mph and my car has the same bodykit.

I hope my next posts will be more warmly recieved, or should I stick to forums for Premium brands!!!

 

[u33db]

erm, ill think youll find the M3 has a massively powerful engine as well as your bodykit so that might explain its speed not yours...or lack of. Im not trying to be nasty but please be aware of what your car can and cant do!

 

[Rob137]

Quote: Originally posted by u33db on 16 November 2004


Really? My 11 year old Clio 16v would whoop the arse of your newer 318...same size of engine and its older!

if your car is a 1.8, then you have no chance, and 11 years old, it will be lucky to start on a morning, are you a student? The BMW 318 has not been a 1.8 for years, its a 2.0 litre with 143 BHP! Yes you are right in thinking that, its a real street sleeper, a Q car etc etc etc!

My car has had one careful company director owner and is every bit as fast as it was when it was made!

BMW quote 0-60 in 9.3 seconds and 135 top speed, but mine is much faster since I chipped it, its just so responsive, most of my passengers dont know its not a real M3!

 

[u33db]

Well, (just to confirm), no im not a student - im work full time in a well paid job. Although my car is 11years old it does start first time, every time. It also has 137bhp as standard, weighs a lot less than your 318 and will 0-60 in 7.7 seconds. Finally, mine has also been rebuilt, chipped and cammed (so will in effect be faster than the figures i have stated) but regardless of if it hadnt itd still be faster than your M3. If your passengers think yours is a M3 they should come for a spin in a car like mine...a proper Q-car thats not pretending to be something its not...

Thanks


[Edited by u33db on 16 November 2004 at 9:06pm]

Oh, Ill also add that mine is 2 insurance groups less...

 

[DaveLiquid182]

Cossie!

Used to work in FORD dealership so have driven plenty. Awesome beasts.

Chipped ones are even better, especially when they used to belong to BENETTON when they had ford engines.

They used to make me do this. LOL

 

[peterh2]

LOL... a 318 keeping with a valver! This I have to see

 

[Dave]

Cant be arsed to read all the thread but itd be the Cosworth for me, as long as you "keep it real". No stoopid mods.

 

[Rob137]

Quote: Originally posted by peterh2 on 16 November 2004

LOL... a 318 keeping with a valver! This I have to see

How fast is a valver? Not 137mph I bet! Hence my name Rob137!

Rear wheel drive, Z axle technology and satnav will beat any hatchback from A to B!

Those new 182s look okay, my colleague raced one in his Z3 1.9 (a true sportscar). They were level up to 140mph he said! he is prone to exaggeration though, I dont reckon his Z3 can go past 137!

 

[peterh2]

In standard form they do at least 130. ud33b’s will probably hit 140+ by the time your bmw got to that speed his valver would probably be about 2 miles further down the road however.

The 182 will also wipe the floor with a z3 1.9 which takes 8.4 secs to hit 60 and has a max speed of just 123 compared to the 182 60 in sub 7 secs and hit 140.

 

[u33db]

rob137, a standard valver will do 130mph and also weighs a lot less. I think but the time your 320 got to top speed we would both have run out of road...with me stopped waiting on you. Dont get me wrong, i dont blame you for thinking bigger is better, but dont forget the effects of extra weight, extra wheel weight/size will have on your 320, which is already at a power-to-weight disadvantage. Its a shame im at a different end of the country from you as i would have demonstrated these facts to you.

Oh, and the legal limit on road is 70...although we all break this, i think the amount of times you can go "137mph" is pretty limited...

 

[Rob137]

Im not going to argue with you Clio drivers, they are old hat and generally student cars now!

I brought up the BM as an alternative to the ageing Escort Cossie and the Clio V6! The Clio will have a performance edge, the Cossie has a handling advantage and the M3 kitted BM is the best looking, smoothest and 2nd fastest!

I bought one of those +20BHP chip conversions from EBAY (£4.99 bargain) so I probably have 170BHP under the bonnet, which is more than a match for most executive saloons, never mind hot hatches!

Rob 137 all day every day!

 

[u33db]

PMSL - one of those ebay chips! I think we either have a windup merchant, a forum user under another name to have a laugh or an complete idiot!

BTW - Your M3 kitted BM is LAST fastest compared to a Cossie or V6. Looks wise...thats personal taste but it is nice ill agree...

 

[bambam1]

LMFAO @ Rob137

do a little research, the valver is more than capable of embarrassing the 318/320 (whichever one you have) i used to own a 525i and 325i convertable, both cars would have been pushed by the valver in a straight line (they were by my mates 106GTi). around the twisty stuff the excessive weight proves to be a bit more of a problem, both wallowing in corners and struggling to knock off the speed quick enough.

satnav will help you get from a to b quicker, yes, but only if you dont know where you are going, which lets face it, if you dont know were you are going, you are unlikely to be speeding.

as for a 318 looking like a M3, does this not sound as comical as a saxo furio driver badging their car up as a vts? a 1.2 16v clio as a 2.0 16v? a fiesta popular plus as a rs turbo? why make the car look like a car, far superior to itself, when you could easily have spent the extra money on a better looking car in the 1st place?

reality is id rather own a good looking standard car than waste money making a car look like something its not